Trading In Midlife Shame and Guilt for Emotional Freedom

We've heard for years from Brene Brown, "We desperately don't want to talk about shame, and we're not willing to talk about it. Yet, the only way to resolve shame is to talk about it." So we are.
Join us for this truthful, maybe gut-wrenching talk about shame and guilt and midlife, as Cam and Amelia guide you through these problematic emotions. But remember, these should be emotions, instead of getting stuck as a mood.

00:00 Inquiring about the purpose of guilt and shame.
05:17 Creating unnecessary boundaries based on false perceptions.
09:10 Caring for aging parents while setting boundaries.
13:16 Differentiate between shame and guilt for lasting change.
15:15 Labels are like masks, connecting but not defining.
19:48 Honesty, vulnerability, and accepting inevitable relationship conflicts.
21:26 Seeking authenticity, empathy, and grace with others.
24:27 Struggled at work, found success, transformed.
27:30 Overcoming fear leads to confidence and resilience.

In this episode, you'll hear: 

• Authenticity Through Alignment: Assess your actions and values by using your calendar, checkbook, or credit card statement as concrete data points for self-accounting. Aligning actions with values can lead to greater authenticity and self-awareness.
• Liberating From Labels: Move away from shame as a tool for change and from labeling. Shedding negative self-identifications can lead to emotional freedom and deeper connections with others.
• Vulnerability Breeds Connection: Embrace vulnerability as a path to love, belonging, joy, and innovation. Being honest with oneself and opening up to trusted others can lead to deeper connections and personal growth.
  
  

Stay Connected!
Amelia

• Website: https://www.thehelpfulplate.com/
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/thehelpfulplate/

Cam

• Website: https://www.camoyler.com/
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/heymomma_cam/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heymomma_cam

Midlife Mommas IG: https://www.instagram.com/midlife.mommas/

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Transcript

0:08

Hi. I'm Cam, holistic health coach, mom to 2 humans and 4 pets. Hi. I'm Amelia, laboratory scientist by day and food scientist by night. Welcome to our show. Join us as we share our holistic approach to life after 50. You can expect real life stories with a dash of humor and a ton of truth. If it happens in midlife, we're going to talk about it. So hit that subscribe button and follow along. We're the Midlife Mommas Hello. Hello. Who remembers that wonderful Barbara Streisand song guilty? Today, we're talking about those ugly sister emotions of guilt and shame. Yeah. How many of us, including me, walk around with these on our back weighing us down, not making us live our best life? Exactly. And this kinda goes back to what we talked about last week a little bit. We we kind of dabble a lot. Last week, we talked about investments and treasures, but we also have the, when we should all over ourselves. And this is kind of what this is about, you know, what's the difference between guilt and shame? And for those of you out there that are Brene Brene Brown fans, this will be a very familiar topic to you. But I just thought it would be fun to talk about because as we are in our midlife awakening, we need to really recognize what these emotions are and how to process them. Yeah. And they're natural feelings, I would say, and we're gonna take what we know about these words and then, reflect it on menopause in midlife. Like, what does it really have to do with living your best life? Yeah. Absolutely. And, yeah, I was telling Cam, probably even before today, this actually came up for me, in a conversation I had with my husband because well, I don't even remember the because, but I was thinking, is there any evolutionary reason for guilt and shame? I mean, are we built as humans to experience this to ingratiate ourselves in a group? Because when we were cave women, we needed each other, and this was a way to kind of bring those wayward people back into community. And I don't know the answer to that. It was just a thought. Or are shame and guilt strictly a construct of a power struggle? That's the other question I have. I mean, if I was a cave lady, I don't know if I knew if I would know what guilt and shame are. I feel like it's a modern world problem. I may maybe I'm wrong, but what do you think? I think that you're probably more right than not. I just think it's interesting to consider. Like, I don't know if there's any evolutionary research on this because, certainly, I think we feel more of these emotions in modern day society than than they did in cave woman days. Now whether or not, you know, movies and historical fiction novels are true, I certainly read about it or see it in these documentaries. So I think it's been around for a very long time, but PS power struggles have been there around for a really long time as well. Yeah. And for me, they're definitely different words. Like, guilt and shame have different meanings. For me, personally, if I feel guilty, it's really about the other person. Like, I should be doing should, in air quotes Yeah. Should be doing something else for somebody else, and I'm choosing not to because I'm exhibiting a boundary or parameter, and I don't want that in. Don't let that in. Or shame on the other hand was reared its ugly head in my forties going through divorce in a small town and being the teacher, and he was the business owner. And it was just really ugly and dark. And so that was more about me being bad versus, you know, another person. Do you have a differentiation between those words for you? I I do. I'm not sure it's the same. Maybe it is. I haven't defined it for myself in quite those concrete terms, but I think guilt, I don't think about it in terms of me versus others. It's like guilt is something I should have done or shouldn't have done that that I did or didn't do. You know, it's kinda like, oh, I should have done you know, it's the should thing. Right? Like, it's about the action. The shame is about me usually, and it's all about what someone else thinks. So for me, shame is all about what someone else thinks about what I did or didn't do. I agree with that. A 100%. Shame says I am bad. Something's wrong with me because I, you know, that's what people think. I agree with that a 100%. And my biggest example would be definitely the divorce. Like, it was very shameful. Yeah. And I've processed, I would say, most of it. When I talk about it, I don't have any, like, my stomach doesn't hurt. So it's like my symbol that, oh, you're past it. But for many years, I avoided the people in my life during that time, and I've actually talked about it. I've reunited with many of my girlfriends from that time period, and now I see them, like, almost weekly. We talk, you know, we go camping, we go hiking, we whatever. But it took me many years before I could get rid of my shame, and then I've talked to them about the shame, and they're like, we didn't think that. And I was like, oh, it was all on me. Yeah. And I I think that's really common, Cam, that we create a narrative in our mind about what we think is real, and it's really not. So we've created a whole lot of, unnecessary boundaries, and that's probably the wrong word because it's a construct that's not real. It's not a real boundary that we think we should or, I wish there was a better word. I keep using that one. But, that that we feel like other people have an opinion about us or something we've done or not done, and then we have this reactive emotion instead of owning who we are. And I think for me, both guilt and shame have this element of, am I being authentic? And that's where I try to, like, frame my own feelings to be in a centered place. Because if my actions or inactions are are not congruent with who I want to be, that could induce either guilt or shame. And that kinda goes back what we talked about last week with the whole, like, incentives or, investments and treasures because I want the investment of my time, energy, and money to be authentic to who I wanna be, and that's kind of the centering of of this conversation as well. Yeah. I actually had a really profound thought after we recorded that between between episodes, Amelia. If you look at your calendar or you look at your checkbook or your credit card statement, really, that tells you where you're spending your time and your effort and your money, and it should reflect your values. If you're not sure, if you're aligned, that's where I would look. Look at your calendar. Look at your checkbook if you still write checks. I write a couple checks a month, and or or your credit card statement, and that will tell volumes about what you're valuing, and is it aligned to who you want to be. Yeah. And I think that's a great accounting, Cam, because my husband and my daughter, who are engineers, will tell you that numbers don't lie, and those things, you know, have numbers associated with it. It's data. So if you're a big data person, I absolutely love that tactic as a way of accounting for yourself. I think there are people, and I will put myself in this category, that would avoid it for the exact reasons we're talking about right now. But I do think that that data those are great data points. So I'm so glad you brought that up. Yeah. Like, if you value, I don't know, eating healthy foods, but you eat at McDonald's all the time, for example, and you have McDonald's credit card charges on your thing, well, that's just, you know, it's not aligned. That's a really crazy example, but that's just an example of, like, are you aligned? Are you using your resources and your time and your energy towards things you really want? And I love that. And, you know, we kind of at the top of the episode, we talked about the difference between guilt and shame. And I think guilt can be somewhat corrective. It can be constructive. It can be helpful if if it's holding something we've done or failed to do against our values and we feel that psychological or emotional discomfort, that can be a telltale signs that we do need to self correct. Whereas I I I think that shame is just bad like a bad emotion. I I'm not sure there's any constructive aspect of shame. No. It feels really heavy and it's a burden on yourself, and I can see your point with with the guilt that it can be like a guiding point Right. To help guide you make better decisions, you know, and I think about mom guilt when I was a teacher and my kids were younger. Like, there was so much guilt, I guess, during that time of life, you know, making sure I was the best teacher I could be, making sure I was the best wife and the best mom, and then there was absolutely nothing left for myself, You know, at the end of the day, I just remember being exhausted and being like, oh, I'm like, this is not fun. So there was guilt, like, showing up for other people. You know? And and at the extent expense of myself. Have you ever felt that way? Oh, a 100%, and I'll even bring that into the present. You know, when my dad was sick, I went to see him 3 days a week. Now this was a short, short period of time when he was in the hospital with cancer. And now we're experiencing this with my mother-in-law where she requires a whole lot of care. And so some of our friends and listeners may be in that situation whereas it's not our small children anymore, maybe it's these aging parents, but it's still important to have your boundaries and to take care of yourself because we've talked about this because we've done a couple of episodes I know about aging parents, and if you're a caregiver in any capacity and you absolutely, like, leave yourself bereft of any energy left over, then you can't be the caregiver. So, yeah, I I have definitely felt that, and I think that our generation, Cam, was that we got to do it all generation. We didn't understand that, you know, taking care of ourselves was being a good mother and was being a good teacher, wife, whatever the role is. Yeah. I think it's changing though, and I don't know if it's because I'm changing or is it menopause or the times are changing, but I understand to my core that taking care of myself is a way to take care of other people in my life better. I'm just happier. Yeah. Did you have do you do you have to practice it? Because you're super good at that. I still kind of have some negative emotion around that because it makes me feel selfish. And I don't know if the selfish part is where I start to feel guilty, because I travel a lot. I've started to travel a lot with work, and my husband basically does everything at home. So there's a little bit bit of this while I'm providing so he can take care of his mom. He's actually, like, managing 2 households. So I feel a little selfish, and that feels icky sometimes. Psst. Hey, you. Have your workout stopped working? There are a few things I need to tell you. Hey there. It's Cam, and I'm here to guide you through a few simple actionable steps that will actually transform your health. And believe it or not, you'll actually see results from your efforts. Learn how to get fit and energized with a free on demand masterclass called the 4 keys that unlock menopause fitness. If you're ready to take control of your journey, click on the link in the show notes for this free masterclass now. Okay. I'll see you in class. Yeah. So what was it for me? I've I would go back to being sick in my hysterectomy and having no energy and, like so that was definitely a turning point. Like, I have to take care of my physical body and my emotional body because this stinks. And how did I get here? Like, I thought I was exercising and, you know, eating decent for, you know, 10, 12 years, and then I ended up in that situation. So, you know, yeah. And then also, another part of that story is my role changed. You know, I went from a wife and a mom to a divorced person, and my kids got older, and so my role as a mom changed. And I was like, wait a minute. Like, okay. Okay. Where where's all this energy and time and effort gone? I need to, you know, turn it inward so I can show up better in the world because I was a shell of a human, Amelia. Yeah. You said that before, and I'm so appreciated. And you really literally learned the hard way. Like, I think there's a lot of us that didn't have the profound experience you did. And so you're just a testimony to the truth of these things. And so other people, hopefully, you know, will embrace it and understand that taking care of yourself is is super important. One of the things that Brene Brown says that I just think is so interesting, and she besides our own feelings on these topics and our own experiences, I have to admit to our listeners that she was probably my premier or primary source of information, especially with regard to shame because Brene Brown does consider herself a shame researcher. But anyway, this is the quote I wanna share. I believe that if that if we want meaningful lasting change, we need to get clear on the differences between shame and guilt and call for an end to shame as a tool for change. That also means moving away from labeling. So I have to reread that a couple of times to really let that sink in. We need to be clear on the difference between shame and guilt and call for an end to shame as a tool for change. Because I don't know about about, I don't think I ever shamed my kids. I think I was pretty aware of that, but that's really common in parenting. Mhmm. Even in today's world, I I see it on the street corner where a parent berates a kid and shames them in order to make them behave. And I really don't agree with that, but I think that people in the workplace still use it and it's just I think that's gonna be difficult for a lot of people to overcome. I agree, and my own personal story with shame didn't change me. It just made me feel like a hermit. It made me feel bad about myself, so I agree with your quote. That was not a motivating factor to change. Yeah. And and the other thing, this this also means moving away from labeling, and we've talked about this before in the in the, you know, in terms of the midlife awakening. People say, I can't or, you know, I'm old now, so I can't do this or I'm that. And I think that's kinda where we come in with the opposite idea. If we're we don't have to subscribe to a label in midlife. We don't have to be whatever our moms were. I mean, this is a great time of life and, you know, whether it's you were always the fat kid or the short kid or the curly headed kid, you know. As I sit here with wet hair on the screen. Right. Right. But, you know, that that those are, it can be very formative, like, if you if you identified as that to, like, move away from that label can be so liberating. Yeah. So I learned this lesson from Lindsay who we've had on the podcast. Labels are kind of like mask, and so I can use my, you know, I was single for a while, I was divorced, I was a teacher, you know, all those things. I'm a fitness coach, I'm a health coach. Those are all labels that label me to help me connect with other people, but that does not define who I am as a human. And so understanding, it's kind of fun when you put that mask on. When I say, oh, when I was a teacher, I'm using that intentionally to connect with other people that may understand that world, but, also, I understand that that doesn't define them, and it certainly doesn't define me. It was just part of me, just part of it. That's a beautiful realization is to say, and to view it as that. Because when we think of a mask, we think of something we can take on or off that's transient. And if you're a person that has self identified with a negative label, maybe it's time that you shed that. Maybe if you, you know, were not the smart kid, or especially if you're part of a sibling group and maybe your sister or brother were the smart one and the other one was the athletic one and you were just, you know, whatever, it's time to kinda shed that. But I love that we can put on what we need to to help us connect with others because we do long for connection with others. Right. And it can be a tool to use. Right. Just being aware that you are you know? And I think we've talked about this as before also, like, our exercise identity is one of those masks that we wore, and we use that to connect with other people. Would you agree with that, Amelia? A 100%. Absolutely. And then when that mask cracked and fell apart and was in the trash can, that was like it took a minute to get used to not wearing that mask. That was my personal experience. No. I agree. I agree. I had it too. And even while I was wearing that particular mask of triathlete, which I loved and clung to, like Mhmm. You know, with a death grip, it still offered some amount of, I won't say shame. That's too strong of an emotion. But when I was around other triathletes who had better race times, I was a little sheepish about talking about my my experiences. So the the kind of the, not caveat, the downfall of the mask or the identity is that it may offer some pain as well as some joy. Mhmm. Yeah. And putting down those mask, I know we've talked about, like, took some effort and I even, you know, sometimes, oh, yeah. I can still do this. No. You can't. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Don't even try. Yeah. Absolutely. And that kinda leads us to another Brene Brown point, and this is kind of getting really deep into her philosophy. When we talk about connection, we talk about she talks about vulnerability, and I've just kind of embraced this probably in the last couple of years because being vulnerable a lot of times has been, denoted or has birth place of love, belonging, joy, empathy, innovation, and creativity. Yeah. So what I hear you saying is taking off all those mask and just letting your soul shine, and that's it. And then show the world who you really are. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And I think a lot of us are really afraid to do that because maybe that's not what other people want or maybe we don't feel like the true us is worthy, and that's when the the shame stuff comes in. Mhmm. And it's really hard to identify the situations that make you feel that way. You just know you feel it's sometimes it can be a racing heart or, like, a feeling in your gut, but I think most of us have some, way that we identify that uncomfortable feeling. Oh, yeah. I believe you feel it in your in your body. Visceral, it's a visceral response, but you just don't know what it is until you start paying attention. Oh, every time I'm around this person, I have no energy, or every time I'm in this group, I feel amazing and I just wanna hang out with them. So you're having a reaction to those situations, you just have to turn it inward. Yeah, for sure. So, if we want to be more authentic and we want to, be confident in who we are so that we don't experience these negative emotions of shame, or if we do feel guilt, we really recognize what this is about. You know, what do you think the first step is? Oh, gosh. Yeah. I'm not really sure what the I mean, my story just kind of unfolded, so I'm not really sure what would be a good first step. What would you do? Yeah. I think it's getting clear about who you are and what you want, and being honest with yourself first. I think you have to be honest with yourself first, and then, you know, part of the vulnerability is opening up that to other people that you trust and realizing that people will hurt your feelings. Like, that is an inevitability. But it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you unlovable. It just means that maybe their values aren't aligned with yours. Even your your best friend or your sister, it's okay to be to have a disagreement or to not completely be aligned on every single point. Right. And when you're vulnerable, it it doesn't mean gossip. I just wanna say that. Right. Right. Right. Right. Your point. You're just gossiping and you're being vulnerable and sharing the world's secrets. No. That's not what we're talking about. I think we're talking about on a deeper level, like, who you are as a human, like, at the soul level, like, I mentioned a minute ago. No. I agree with that a 100%. I'm so glad you were all about that point because, there is I I was in a leadership class many years ago, and they talked about I there's a word for it. But, basically, when you have a common enemy, when you align with someone else to make yourself feel better by having a common enemy. So you're gossiping about, you know, Jane over there because of whatever. It never works. You're never ingratiate yourself with other people, so that is not vulnerability at all. That's not real. I mean, that is, like, fake. I mean, I I don't even know what's going on. Yeah. It's like a fake connection, a fake vulnerability. Like, oh, we believe the same thing. Oh, we think the same thing about this person over here, and it's not really true. You know, I'll somebody's opinion. Yeah. I'll go step one one step further, Cam, in the last probably 6 months, in addition to being authentic with myself, I'm really also trying to give other people the benefit of the doubt. I can put on my judgy pants in a really quick second. And so it's more at work, like, when people, like, really tick me off or I'm like, why would why would they do that? Just recognizing that I don't know what all is going on in their head or their heart. I don't know what's going on at home. Like, just trying to be just give them grace and be like, okay. Well, I am not gonna reciprocate in kind here. I am not gonna say the mean thing back. I'm not gonna point out that if they didn't do x y z, then they wouldn't have had this other thing happen. So it's really hard, to to both be authentic to yourself because sometimes we feel wounded by those other people. And but to not reciprocate with the venom that they may give to us. And you know what's coming up? The Four Agreements for me. Yes. Don't take things personally. That's the one that came up for me. Oh, honey. The hardest one for me. That's the toughest, but I feel like I'm making strides there. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we should have our own Amazon store with just the Four Agreements. Like, Everyone should buy the Four Agreements. It's so vital, and everyone should read it every year. Yeah. It's it's like a guide book. Yeah. When you get stuck or when you're feeling pooey, just go sit in the sun and read that book. You'll be good. And in fact, you could probably read it in an hour or like, maybe I probably couldn't get through it in an hour, but definitely don't don't take things personally. I don't know if Brene Brown has ever referenced that book, but it is just a cornerstone of just authenticity in my opinion. Yeah. That book definitely helped me through my yucky's forties for sure. That was definitely on repeat in my forties. I think the other thing is being clear about boundaries, and you've already mentioned that when we talk about being authentic and confident, and what your boundaries are. And I think that we can very easily kind of overstep our own boundaries and put up walls. So, you know, I think there's a difference there. Guilty. I was so guilty about my forties. So tell us about that. What do you mean? Yeah. I felt like I was a crossed woman, and so you yeah. You don't mess with me. You mess with me. You want too many times. You're out, and that's how I felt like I just had boundaries all over the place. Like, brick walls, not not parameters. I prefer prefer parameters that kind of are, you know, flow and change based on the situation where I just had flipping brick walls. Like, you cross me, you're out. So But don't you think that was a self protection mechanism at the time that you were 100%. Yeah. You were hurting, and so that was a way to keep it all in. Yeah. 100%. And it goes back to the shame. Mhmm. I was shameful, so that was my protection. I feel like, you know, a turtle carrying their house around and, like, you do anything. I'm in. I'm just gonna go inside my shell. Yeah. And I think I did that for the 1st 6 months and probably more like 9 months of this job because I didn't know what I was doing really, and I wasn't able to be I wasn't vulnerable, so I wasn't able to bring my best self to work. I wasn't creative. A lot of those positive things, you know, innovation, belonging, joy, I didn't experience any of that. I was so self protective. Like you said, I felt like I was carrying the weight of the world. Mhmm. And it took some small successes for me to actually come out of that. So, you know, I would encourage people, if you're in a home life or a work situation or a social situation where you feel that, find a way to get a little bit of success. You know what I mean? I I wish I could be more specific about what that would look like because I think a little bit of success actually builds that confidence and allows you to be more vulnerable. Yeah. Reframing it, but also I wanna say one more thing that you started this job while your father was sick. So That's true. Amelia, a lot was going on in your world. There's a lot going on. So it makes sense that you were in your turtle shell because there was a lot going on in your life. And, you know, the good news is, just like I I think turtles, I don't know if their shells grow or they outgrow, but I think I get turtles. No. No. That's hermit crabs. Hermit crabs eat their shell. Yeah. Yeah. I think snails. But I think we can grow. You know, that's the beautiful thing is these, hard walls or feelings of insufficiency, we can overcome them. It does take work, though. I will say that this you know, your work seems to be profound and, like, you really worked, I don't know, worked through a lot with therapy and and working through your divorce. Mine seems to be a little bit more subtle, but I still think it was there. All that work had to be done. I still, you know, engaged a therapist, meditation, journaling, thought work, reframe framing. Like, all of that stuff still has to be done in order to get to that good place. Yeah. And the and I will I wanna say this, like, the real transformation, like, got through my forties, whatever, with all those things. But the real transformation happened at menopause. I really believe it's like the gigs up. Like, how are you gonna live the second half of your life? Are you gonna have brick walls around you and, like, live in shame, or are you going to do something different? I feel like menopause was the change for me. I don't know. That is amazing, and I hope a bunch of our listeners will take that to heart. But do you think some of like, we think about physical injury, a scar actually reinforces that injured place. Do you think that your your emotional pain actually created those scars that made you more resilient? CrossFit made me very resilient, like, as far as pain, like, I just could go and do. What made me resilient? I just was determined to figure out my health and my life. That's it was just like, I'm not gonna feel at this. Like, I'm not gonna be like this for the next 50 years. It's this is not okay. Yeah. Mine was similar. It just was like I felt like I'm miserable. I'm not enjoying my life, and so what changes can I make? And then when I let some of those brick walls down and thought, you know I was fearful that my work would not be well received. And when the walls didn't crumble, I didn't get fired, my family didn't leave. You know what I mean? Like, the world does not come to an end. The sky does not fall. When you let the the little chinks in your armor through and you realize, oh, this is okay to be this way. And then it just gives you more and more confidence and more resilience, I think. That was my experience. I agree with that. Yeah. I I wrote an email that goes out tomorrow, and it was about, like, signs of menopause and I was thinking about I had horrible, horrible rashes on my face when I was, I don't know, 4 or 5 months in a menopause, like crazy rashes, and it was horrible. So I was just thinking about that today, like that was the pits. Mhmm. You couldn't go out. My skin was dry and crack. I put makeup on. It looks even worse because it just like got in all the cracks. I was like, this is just ridiculous. Yeah. I think you kinda have to get to a low point and really believe that you can change and believe in yourself because so there were many times where I thought, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And I'd wake up every day and start and start anew. And, you know, I think most people, even when they tell themselves they can't, they actually do the thing. You know, once we kinda get out of our own way, a lot of times we're we're our own worst enemy. Right? Like, we're the ones making this so hard. I agree. Yeah. And if you could just do that one step and then find the positive in the story or what's happening and then just keep moving forward. Absolutely. Well, menopause really is the the great awakening, and I've I'm in full enjoyment now. I think it's taken a few years. But I really do love what Brene says about about shame, and I just want people to understand that that you can get out of this. If you are feeling unworthy or unloved or not enough of anything, There is a way forward. Thanks for listening today. You can find us on Instagram at @midlife.mommas. For all of our other contact info, check out the show description below, and we will talk to you next week.