Estrogen, Your Midlife Warrior

In this episode, you'll hear:

1. Understanding Estrogen: Discover the different forms of estrogen, E1, E2, and E3, and their significance in the context of menopause, hormone replacement therapy, and overall health. Gain insights into the ways estrogen metabolism can impact the body and how it can be measured and supported.

2. Managing Hormone Imbalance: Learn about the experiences of the hosts and their pursuit of hormone balance, including the challenges and benefits of different hormone replacement therapy methods. Explore the concept of estrogen dominance and how it can be addressed through progesterone supplementation and lifestyle adjustments.

3. Functional Medicine Approach: Gain an understanding of the value of working with a functional medicine provider, the differences between traditional medical appointments and functional medicine consultations, and the benefits of personalized treatment plans that are adjusted based on patient feedback. Discover how the right functional medicine doctor can offer alternatives and hope for those seeking holistic and personalized approaches to their health.

00:00 Estrogen, its decline and different forms discussed.
04:46 Estradiol metabolism and testing, explained in 7 words.
07:54 Nature's gifts help with hot flashes.
11:57 Friends discuss midlife experiences, health concerns, supplements.
16:03 Bio-identical hormone replacement for vibrant, healthy aging.
17:31 Progesterone for 2 weeks, risky, estrogen dominance.
20:03 Awareness of estrogen dominance and detoxing tips.
25:29 Midlife women struggle with midsection fat deposits.
26:42 Bio-identical hormone replacement therapy: personal experience.
29:38 Functional medicine doctor values patient input, collaboration.

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Amelia

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Cam

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Transcript

0:00

Do you ever feel like you're on a roller coaster in midlife? Well, estrogen might be to blame. Hi. I'm Cam, Holistic health coach, mom to 2 humans and 4 pets. Hi. I'm Amelia, Laboratory scientist by day and food scientist by night. Welcome to our show. Join us as we share our holistic approach to life after 50. You can expect real life stories with a dash of humor and a ton of truth. If it happens in midlife, we're going to talk about it. So hit that subscribe button and follow along. We're the Midlife Mommas. Hi, Amelia. That estrogen, we're gonna talk about her today. Yes. We have danced around her many times during other episodes, and she is our warrior, right? So we know that we need her, but sometimes she can get a little out of hand. Absolutely. So we're just gonna keep this very high level and learn more about estrogen and what she does and what estrogen and what she does and what and when she's off and when she's not around, what happens? And so you just have a more understanding of what's happening through midlife, perimenopause and menopause. Absolutely. And so, you know, estrogen is one of the female hormones. We know that. I think most people understand that paired with her sister progesterone, so we're gonna keep the conversation more about estrogen. And we also know we've told, I think our our listeners before, Cam, that the natural decline of estrogen does start in the perimenopause and and certainly, I guess it's over when when you get through menopause, but we know that that's declining and of course this starts at different ages for different people, but there are some symptoms, so we're gonna talk about that a little bit, but we're also gonna talk about the different forms of estrogen. Did you know that there's actually three forms of estrogen? I did not know that until I was 50. That's when I learned. Yeah. I think I was probably that age as well, and so we're gonna talk about the 3, estrogens, the e one, the e two, and the e three. Will give you a little bit about what they are and what they do and what we might be experiencing during menopause. So let's start with the E1, the s the estrone. Yeah. So that is the only form that's made after menopause and, unfortunately, it's the weakest form of estrogen. Yes. Unfortunately, although we've all felt that and another really interesting thing, to know about this form of estrogen is some is produced in, in the testes of men. So men actually do produce a very small amount of estrogen in the form of this E1. Yeah. And I just wanna say, have you ever seen men that have boobs and a belly? Have you ever seen that? Yes. Yeah. Okay. They They're usually midlife. That is estrogen. They may think it's their beer belly, but what happens is the fat actually, produces more estrogen. And so I whenever I see that, I'm like, it's not your beer. It's not. It's estrogen. So maybe they need more testosterone to balance it out. That is so interesting because am I am I correct that this e one estrogen is is produced in the adrenals as well? Yes. Absolutely. And so your adrenal glands have to choose. They either are gonna make sex hormones like DHEA, which turns into testosterone, or eat the e one, or they're gonna manage all of your stress, all of your crazy stress stuff. So we need our sex hormones. Our sex hormones are way more than, like, the physical nature of physical sex. So, yes, true. That is so interesting. I've just learned so much as we've been talking about this. So what else do we know about this E one estrone? Well, it's produced in the adrenal and fatty tissues like I mentioned with the pregnant men and the boobs. Yeah. Right? And it's also made in the ovaries. So for me, I don't have any ovaries, so I don't have that option for my e one. Interesting. And I do have mine and sometimes I think it spurts out tiny bits of estrogen here and there. I'm not even sure, but I I feel different sometimes and I'm like, well, maybe it's that. But another interesting thing and this is important and sobering that high levels of the e one are seen in obesity and in breast cancer. Yeah. It's a fatty tissue is like an estrogen crank router, if you will. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And so the body can convert to this to e 2, which we're gonna talk about in a minute, when it needs a stronger form of estrogen. So it can actually take the e one and turn it into the e two, for example, like the thickening of the uterine for pregnancy. So that's one of the amazing thing our our body does. That is really cool. So the e2 and like Cam said we're gonna get to that in a menopause, that's estradiol, but your body has to metabolize estrogen like everything else and it metabolizes the E1 in in one of 3 pathways and we know that some of this path one of the pathways is great, one is not so great and one is not good at all. So, you know, depending on your body and your liver function, depends on, which pathway your body is using and it's a combination, it's not like it's all or nothing to metabolize this. So there is testing that you can have done that actually shows these metabolites and I think it's pretty cool to see it. I have not had it done myself, but, Cam, I think you have. Yeah. It's called the DUTCH test. It's a dry urine test and I do it annually. I've done it 3 years now. And, I was actually taking my e one and turning it into the worst kind. The it's the 4 o h, and that is pro cancer. It damages your DNA. It's not good. And when I took the test, this was post hysterectomy, and I was given a very high dose I thought of oral estrogen and sent on my way with no progesterone and no information. I just did what the doctor told me And, yeah. So when I found my new doctor, we did the Dutch test to see where I was starting. Like, what the heck's going on here? First of all, oral estrogen is the hardest kind for your liver to metabolize, and so we're gonna talk about, Amelia uses a cream and I use a patch currently. And so that's just avoiding part of the liver and part of the Right. You know. Yeah. Right. So the liver, when we take things orally, you can think of something like Ibuprofen or some sorts of medications and oral ingestion of hormones, including things like the pill, are also metabolized by the liver. So your liver is a super important organ, So like Cam said, we take the, the cream or the patch form of the bio identical hormones, but healthy metabolism requires that these hormones be transformed in the liver and eliminated and estrogen is harder for our liver to metabolize, so this is, you know, we think about estrogen being a warrior and that and it's true, but it's not I think that there's other aspects of it that people need to be aware of, so if you're considering some sort of hormone replacement therapy, just taking a pill may not be the best option. I'm just gonna say that. Yeah. There's other ways to deliver it that is kinder to your body and easier on your liver, help us get rid of the used up estrogen. I'll just call it help us get rid of the used up estrogen, I'll just call it that way, in in the form of cruciferous vegetables. So that's like your brussels sprouts and your broccoli and your cauliflower. So they definitely should be part of your midlife diet to help you metabolize this estrogen and get it out of your body. That's so cool. And it is really cool how mother nature knows what to give us. And we we know that those are really good vegetables for us. In fact, I don't know if I even told you this, Cam, I'm still experiencing some hot flashes at night and we're trying to, figure that out, and one of the things my functional medicine doctor told me is try more cruciferous vegetables, list. And obviously fruit is not a cruciferous vegetables, but I wanna say cherries was on the list and it was just really interesting to see the things that would help detox, were like detoxifying foods or foods that would help my body detox. One of the other things that was really interesting was dandelion root tea and it has a little bit of a earthy flavor, so that's not everybody's cup of tea, pardon the pun, but but I love it and I've loved it for a long time and I didn't know why. And, maybe it was just my body needed it. Uh-huh. That's amazing. I like that a lot. Yeah. Let's move on to E2. So that's the estradiol, and this is our main female hormone. This is the estrogen, the definitely the most potent form. Right and exactly and I know that when I first started with a traditional doctor and we were investigating the symptoms of menopause, I know one of the things she wanted to test was estradiol, I think I think I'm correct on that, estradiol, and I wanna say the first hormone replacement I did was an estradiol pill. So Cam and I have both had experiences with oral medications, but I think that's what I actually took orally before I moved to the cream. And how was your experience taking it orally? You know, because I don't know if it was that or something else, but in general, it wasn't working. Like, I was still waking up a bunch at night. I still had a fair amount of anxiety, and I still had the hot flashes. So it I've not taken it in over a year now. Mhmm. But obviously, if it was working, maybe I wouldn't have thought to change or seek another alternative. So, you know, it wasn't horrible, but I won't say that it worked. Yeah. So I took it for 6 months after hysterectomy and it did not work. I felt like crazy. I could cry at a drop of a hat, hot flashes, no sex drive. Yeah. It was not a good experience. I had no idea what was going on. It's really interesting. So the estradiol is very potent and it's produced by our ovaries naturally, so that's why, you know, we said that's what you think of when you think of estrogen, but just like we were explaining our journeys, it's really the most common form that's typically in hormone replacement therapy as well. Yeah, exactly. And like in my situation, my ovaries were removed with my uterus And so I went to a traditional doctor. This is before I knew what I was doing. And she gave me an oral estrogen and sent me on my way and said, you don't need progesterone because you don't have a uterus. And I just wanna say progesterone does way more than thicken a uterus to have, a baby. There's way more to it and, anyway, I just want that's a public service announcement. Right. I love that. So e2 is more active than the e 1 or the e 3, which is the one we'll talk about last. It's more active on a cellular your cellular level, but it does a lot of things. So Cam, what are some of the things that this estradiol, this E2 does for us? Yeah. So as your ovaries are going crazy in perimenopause and then close down shop in, in menopause, you'll understand when we go through this stuff. So e 2 helps us grow muscle and get strong. E 2 helps our mitochondria function which actually helps sweep out or clean out the free radicals, so it's like it detoxes us. It, regulates our inflammation which is also amazing. Wanna keep going? That is, yeah, absolutely. So you know I I just spent some time with friends and I love these people and they're all around my age and we all have very different experiences with midlife and some of them seem to sail through perimenopause and and get to menopause without a whole lot of issues like I had with anxiety and hot flashes and thinking I was crazy, but they were concerned about muscle mass and specifically, you know, why is it different and so I think because they are not on any sort of hormone replacement, it's really hard, to, you know, to maintain that muscle mass. I know it's not impossible, but I love the fact that we included that the E2 does promote the muscle growth and strength. So inflammation is obviously, like, I'm on a kind of a detox diet cam, I think I talked about this maybe last week, and I'm off dairy because dairy for me is a little bit of an inflammatory thing. I know that maybe not true for everyone. So you know, I'm trying to help my my hormone supplement as much as I cam. But the E 2 does help regulate inflammation and also blood sugar which we've talked about a bunch, that we are more insulin sensitive at this time of our life because of this decline in estrogen. Yeah. So what we eat and the order that we eat it, it matters even more, which leads us to the next thing. E2 helps us regulate our appetite. And maybe you felt like you had no breaks and, like, you could just eat anything and your appetite's just gone crazy. We can thank that for E2 as well. Yeah, absolutely. So regulating appetite but also managing mood. So those crying jags or one minute you're fine and the next minute you wanna punch somebody, you know, that's part of this too. So there's a lot of really incredible things that E2 does. It controls our body temperature. Hello, hot flashes. I had one last night at 5 AM, but I also drank wine last night. There's a 100% correlation between those two events, I know that. Interesting and also helps us control blood pressure, builds bone, and it also plays a role in, I think the, integrity of the vagina, like the elasticity but also vaginal dryness, we know that that comes on with menopause and that's due to some of this E2 decline. Yeah. So we know that there's at least 34 symptoms of menopause and I think we just named a whole bunch of them and it's related to our little E2 situation when our ovaries are cutting down, shutting down progress. It's profound, Cam. I know your experience was similar to mine. If not, you know, I know it wasn't the same, but I really felt this and it just to put a reason to it is somewhat empowering to now have the information to process what's happening. Yeah. You're not crazy. There is something you're biologically changing on the inside and it's going to change things on the outside. How you feel, how you look, all the stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, so e three, we'll just mention. That's when you're pregnancy. When you're pregnant, you cam make that estrogen, so that does not apply at this time. Right. Exactly. I don't even think I had heard of that one until we did the research for this. So, yeah, pregnancy estrogen e 3. Uh-huh. So having low estrogen has a lot of also has a risk factor of heart disease, which we did not mention above. So e 2 is part of that whole situation. We need estrogen for our bones, for our muscles, for our heart, for our mood, all the things. Right. Exactly. I'm sorry. Let me just mention, I think that there's some statistics, and I don't know what the current ones are, that women are actually we think we hear more about men having heart attacks, but I think it's more prevalent in women. Mhmm. And I wonder if that tiny shift above 50% for women is because of the estrogen. I feel like I've read that, but I can't say that 100%, but I think that you're on to something for sure. Yeah. Cool. So let's talk a little bit about, oh did you want to say something else about that before we move to estrogen dominance? No. Yeah. That's just another reason that bio identical hormone replacement may be a good option because it helps you with all of these things. And one of them is heart disease and your muscles and your bones and your blood sugar and all of these things make you have a form more vibrant, healthy second half of life because we're not done. There's no reason to suffer through this section of life. Absolutely. I am done suffering, girl. I am I am living my good midlife. Let's talk about estrogen dominance, and that is when we're talking about the the ratio between our progesterone and our estrogen. And progesterone is made when you ovulate, so when the egg is released, like halfway through your month. Right? And if you're not doing that, then you're not making us, progesterone. So when we have when we're comparing the amount of estrogen and progesterone, that ratio when you compare the 2 is super important. And we know estrogen is dropping and so is progesterone. Actually, progesterone drops first. So there are lots of symptoms when estrogen is ruling ruling the show like in compared to progesterone. Right. And I know that I use a progesterone supplement as well and I guess the trick if you do supplement is keeping that balance in check. Mhmm. Yeah. It's like they're like 2 sisters. One's the wild crazy, woo hoo, let's go get it. That's estrogen. And progesterone's like, let's stay home and have a snack. That's progesterone. Yeah. You know, when I first started down the path of investigating hormone replacement, I only took progesterone. I took progesterone from, like it was weird, and I didn't talk to a single other woman in my friendship group or the women I know that are a little bit older that did this. But my doctor had me taken progesterone, and it's oral Mhmm. From day 14 through day 28. Now that's kind of a risky thing because I didn't really know where even day 1 was, but, you know, so basically for 2 weeks, and then I stopped taking it for 2 weeks, and then I'd go back on it. So a lot of times, like you said, Cam, that drops first, but the estrogen to progesterone ratio is important. So when estrogen is high compared to progesterone, that's a high ratio or what we refer to as estrogen dominance. And there can be a lot of bad things not bad, but you know things that are unpleasant as a result of that, like heavy menstrual bleeding, fibroids or ovarian or, fibroids or breast cysts. So those are things that can happen if you have estrogen dominance. Yeah. And I had all of those things from the age of 18 on, and when I went back and, like, look at my health history, I had signs of estrogen dominance forever. So supplementing with progesterone, I would have been an awesome candidate. And I would also say most women who are in perimenopause, supplementing with progesterone during this time can really really improve your experience through perimenopause. I just wanna say that. It's a it's a good thing. Question about your experience. So if you were kind of estrogen dominant from, like, young adulthood, Mhmm. Knowing what you know now, would you have thought that you would have been a candidate for progesterone supplementation from that early age or only once you approach perimenopause? You know, I don't know how early they would have done it. I had no problem Okay. With my pregnancies or becoming pregnant. So, I mean, obviously, I was ovulating, so there was progesterone, but I think in connection. And if I look back, you know, I we're a child of the nineties, and that's like when microwaves started making their thing and Monsanto and all their I feel like I had toxins in my body. I think that's part of the story. I I can't get guarantee that for sure. But, you you know, there was a lot of moving parts. I had, I had ovarian cysts when I was 18 and had lap surgery at 18, And that was the first time I took hormonal birth control pills, and that was the solution to get rid of the cyst. I don't know. It's it's a long complicated story. Yeah. It is, and I think not only were consumers ignorant back then but I'm sure the medical community wasn't as smart or as they didn't know what they know now about all of this. So, you know, I think that was probably very common. I had some of those symptoms as well. So, you know, I think just being aware now is so important and so one of the things we wanted to share was if you have some of these symptoms or you think you're estrogen dominant or you've been tested and you know that, besides any sort of supplementation, we wanna make sure that you're detoxing the bad estrogen from your life. So things like plastics, for example, or hair and skin products, there's chemicals in these things and in foods that are like estrogen and it can actually fool your body and so that it makes it think that there's more estrogen there, and so it puts you into this estrogen dominant situation. And that's what I think was my situation growing up. That that's what I think. I did we eat organic food? No. Did we microwave and plastic? Probably. Like, you know what I mean? Like, who knows? What kind of stuff was I putting on my skin and using it, you know, a lotion? It was probably loaded with stuff, and I just think I was sensitive. I don't know. Yeah. Because I'm sure I did all of those things, but I'm not sure I was as sensitive as you. Like, I don't think my symptoms I don't I'm not sure that any of those things that we talked about with being estrogen mommas, I didn't experience that as a young woman. Mhmm. I mean, all of my problems started in the perimenopausal era, but we've talked about it a bunch before, Cam, with regard to just detoxing not necessarily related to estrogen. So these are these are detoxing, getting away from plastics, getting away from, you know, foods that might have chemicals on it and putting things on your skin with chemicals. It's not just estrogen dominance that gets fixed or has benefited from this, It's just a life improvement and I personally think I'm worth it. Yeah. And I just keep leaning into the next thing to the next thing and, like, lately, my kick is really looking at the oils, making sure that the products that I'm purchasing at the grocery store do not contain vegetable oils, canola oils. I've really gotten strict about that and, like, I'm not gonna buy if it has it in it. I'm just not. I'm just so that's another way to detox. Yeah. And that's just super impressive and diligent and I think just from talking to my friends this weekend, I mean, you and I have been on this journey for so long. So I I think to to people that haven't done this for 30 years like we have, it feels very like it's overloading, so just little steps at a time. You know, if you don't, you don't have to bite off everything, but, you know, if you go to the grocery store grocery store, just start with, like, the dirty dozen foods. Try to buy organic of those and if you can get that down, you know, there's other things you can begin to roll into the routine. Like last week, we talked about atomic habits, so we would have to we could build these good habits on existing habits to slowly change in order to detox. Yeah. Absolutely. And there's apps out there to help you. I personally love the Think Dirty app. And then recently in the last month or so, I started using yucca, y u k a, and I've cross checked them and they're both they both are saying yes to this or no to that. I remember last weekend, we're at Costco, and I wanted body soap. Like, I wanted a bar of soap. I use castile soap often in the shower, but sometimes you just want a bar. You just want a good bar of soap. And I haven't really found any because if there's fragrance in there, there's also crap in there. So, anyway, I use the, Yucca app, for a bar soap that I found at at Costco and it passed the test. And I was like, okay. We're gonna use this. So just little things. It's like little one thing at a time. But you think about lotion or soap, you're using it every day. You know? So just lean into little things. Yeah, absolutely. Every little bit counts. So congratulate yourself and pat yourself on the back if you've made some small changes that make a big because they can make a big difference over time. Yeah. I, I wanna mention also weight gain seems to be a situation in midlife, and, actually, where you're gaining weight may be a clue whether your progesterone is higher or your estrogen is higher. And this is from doctor Michelle Sands, and I'll just read what she wrote. Around the time of menopause, most women gain weight. Hello. I did. Did you gain weight, Amelia? I have to be honest, I really didn't have a lot of that. I mean, I I was very fortunate with that respect. The size of the skin or just, distribution depends on the type of hormones When estrogen decreases out of proportion to progesterone, testosterone, and DHEA, the weight gain is in the middle of the body. Hello. That's that belly fat. Cortisol, the hormone released during stress, facilitates that fat storage in the body and the weight gain around the way waist. And so there you go. If estrogen is too high and the progesterone is too low, then the weight accumulates around the hips. So our loss of estrogen is one of the main driver loss of estrogen and increased cortisol is like the driver for the belly fat. So I thought that was interesting. And, you know, even women who I know that had flat stomachs in their early years and maybe they were more of an hourglass shape, so they had a nice hip curve and flat stomachs. I've noticed that during midlife, that's their biggest complaint, like they never had to worry about this before. And some are super healthy eaters and some, you know, kind of average, but it does affect that midsection, and we also know when we we deposit fat in the midlife, around the belly, that's also could be visceral fat or fat around our organs, which is terrible, and I think we covered this in a previous episode to a small extent fatty liver. So when you're when fat deposits get in your liver, that's super bad because as we talked about before, that's the organ that detoxifies things for us. Yeah. I'm one of those women. I never ever carried weight in my belly, and I can get bloated at the drop of a hat if I'm stressed out. I'm bloated. Like, my belly is my barometer of what's going on, and I've never carried extra weight until the last couple years in my belly. So I'm one of those women for sure. Well, that's good that you can speak from experience. Sometimes you look down, you're like, what is going on? Detox your stress. Very cool. So both of us, Cam, have been on a journey to to find a hormone replacement therapy that worked for us. We've already told our listeners before and we'll say it again, the bio identical is the way to go. I am currently taking something called Byest, or taking, I should say, I'm using, it's a cream, and it's a 5050 cream. And I think, I hate to say the milligrams because I might get it wrong, I didn't bring the actual applicator, but I've discovered and I'm not even sure if I've told you this offline, so I've discovered that works best for me is, it's dispensed when you turn the bottom of the thing it clicks and it dispenses a little bit of cream through holes in the top. So the dosage is 2 clicks a day. And I did that for months. But what we've discovered is what works best is one click in the morning and then one in the afternoon. And so it's amazing how that small change in delivery has really helped me be calmer at night. I mean, I still take my magnesium every night, but my sleep is actually way better. Isn't that amazing? I'm so glad that's working for you. That's great. I, on the other hand, use an estradiol, which is the e two. It's a patch, and she actually increased my dosage January December, January. And, and I just switched the patch every, like, twice a week. So Saturday Wednesday, I'm taking off my sticker, and I'm putting a new one on my belly kind of at my hip. But I'm in the process of switching to a cream, so we'll see how that goes. Stay tuned. Yeah. And I I've talked with my functional medicine doctor about other forms of, application. And when she talked about the patch, I was thinking, like, one of those patches that delivers nicotine to people. I forgot what that thing's called. But she she showed me what it looks like, and it's really small. Like, what is it about an inch an inch square, an inch and a half? I mean, it's pretty little. It's yes. I don't even know it's there. But, yes, I don't even know it's there. I don't feel it. Yep. That's what it is. So, you know, there are different methods of delivery and, you know, I would just advise people to work with your functional medicine provider and see what works because sometimes, Cam, my experience has been even when I've done the saliva test and I've done the urine test, what may look out of whack or what may look normal may not match my biofeedback. So it is a journey, and I think you told me this probably last year. Once you start down this journey, don't think that the first thing you try is gonna make it all better. It's a journey, and you have to tweak it. So Cam way better. Like, I think in the 1st 4 months when I started on the bioavailable, I got, like, 50% better right away, but the other 50%, and I'm probably at 85 or 90% to my normal self now, It takes a really long time to dial that in completely. Yeah. I listened to an interview this morning actually with a functional metal medicine doctor that does bio identical hormones, and she was explaining it this way, that when you go to a traditional doctor, you may get 7 minutes with that doctor, and it's all of them directing towards you. And chances are you're gonna walk out of there with a prescription in your hand. Whereas when you're working with a functional medicine doctor, it's really a team thing. It's a team effort and your biofeedback matters and your experiences matter and it's a relationship and it's an educated guess in check. And so it's not it's not like, oh, this is gonna fix it right away. That's not what happens, but they listen to you, which is the most amazing thing, and then you can adjust like switching up your, estrogen twice a day and it's working for you. That's amazing. So you don't even have to have a test. You know it's working because your sleep is better. So Yeah. I love it. And I just, you know, I just want other people to understand that there is hope and there is a path forward. If you can find a good functional medicine doctor and talk about your stuff and they will spend time with you because estrogen is a warrior but you have to know how to use it and you have to know what forms there are available to take. Thanks for listening today. You can find us on Instagram@midlife.mommas For all of our other contact info, check out the show description below, and we will talk to you next week.