How family dynamics change in midlife: empty nests, marriages and divorces

00:00 Discussing challenges when kids bring in partners.
06:12 Daughter and daughter-in-law were friends before marriage.
09:48 In-laws visit North Carolina, holidays split.
12:50 Stepfamily dynamics shift when older children resent.
15:17 Marriage to a man with kids ends.
18:12 Nurturing relationships with extended family is important.
22:26 Challenges of stepfamily dynamics and positive perspective.
23:50 Holidays don't always live up to expectations.
28:33 Embrace change for a more fulfilling life.
30:06 Contact Midlife Mommas for show details, info.

In this episode, you'll hear: 

• Embrace Change: Flexibility is key in navigating midlife family dynamics. Let go of old feelings to prevent negative physical impacts on the body.
• Foster Positive Interactions: Whether it's with in-laws, stepfamily members, or siblings, nurturing positive relationships is crucial for a harmonious family dynamic.
• Communication is Key: Have open conversations about addressing in-laws and setting new family traditions to reduce stress during the holidays and beyond.

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Amelia

• Website: https://www.thehelpfulplate.com/
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Cam

• Website: https://www.camoyler.com/
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• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heymomma_cam

Midlife Mommas IG: https://www.instagram.com/midlife.mommas/

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Transcript

0:08

Hi, I'm Cam, Holistic health coach, mom to two humans and four pets. Hi, I'm Amelia, Laboratory scientist by day and food scientist by night. Welcome to our show. Join us as we share our holistic approach to life. After 50, you can expect real life stories with a dash of humor and a ton of truth. If it happens in midlife, we're going to talk about it. So hit that subscribe button and follow along. We're the Midlife Mommas. Hello, everybody. You are not at a wedding. And actually, we're not even talking about weddings today, but we are talking about you, your kids, and their people. So Amelia and I both have in laws, right? I guess that's what you call them. Yes, we do. We have in laws, yes. And so my son has been married for five years now, and your daughter has been married a year. For a year. So we're gonna just talk about, like, the dynamics of how your family changes as your kids grow up and bring other people into the family. And we're just gonna have some girlfriend chat about this. Yeah, absolutely. This kind of came up a while ago because I don't know if Alyssa has a significant other, but my other child does. And so it's not just if your child is married, but as soon as they are in a serious relationship, that person becomes kind of part of your family. And then you see your child begin to work into the dynamics of their family. And one of the obvious challenges is holidays. But there's a lot going on here. So Cam has just come back recently from seeing her son. I haven't seen my daughter and my son in law. I'll use that in law term in a while, but I am going to see them in a couple of months, so we're just going to see what we learn. Yeah. So this topic actually came up on a hike with a girlfriend, and it was about one of her son's girlfriends. So, anyway, it doesn't have to be marriage, but it could be just like, how did the family dynamics change? And she's like, I don't know how you can talk about this. So, anyway, we're going to do our best and just chat about this. So when you have kids that are grown up and they bring extra people to the family, it changes the dynamics. I think we can all agree with that. And so what we want to talk about is how can you navigate that? So you include the new people in your family and also have time with your kids. So that's. No, it's. Yeah, it's so important and you know, most moms, I think we can say Cam, are pretty intuitive. I mean, I am, and I'm. I'm one of the least nurturing people. If you talk to my children, they're like, I'm that. You know, I've told this story before, Cam, but, you know, when everybody posted pictures of their kids on the first day of school, the moms are so proud. And what I did, I asked my kids, are you. You are still going to school, right? So that's my funny about, you know, not being the typical doting mother. I love my children very much, but I feel like I am sensitive to their energy, whether it's remote, honestly, or in person. So it does change when they bring another person into the family and being sensitive not only to the energy, you know, but now, how is that shifted in our own children, but kind of learning the energy and dynamic of this new person or people. Yeah. And it's. I mean, I think it's natural that you want to spend alone time with your, your children, yet there's this other person involved, and so how do you manage that? And I really think I would just spent a week out in Washington, and I was with my daughter, my son, and my daughter in law. And it was a mixture. I think, for us, it was a mixture. Sometimes I was just with my son. Sometimes I was just with my daughter. Sometimes it was my, my biological kids, and then sometimes it was all four of us. So it just kind of blended together, and it just seemed really balanced, and everyone seemed really happy, and. And I felt satisfied as a mom. Like, my soul was full. So it was a good experience. How do you manage that with your kids? Yeah, that's really cool. And I love that you did. And my experience are positive also. And I'm wondering. I'm going to get to answer your question in a second, but I'm wondering, because you have a boy and a girl for your biological children, which means your daughter in law and Alyssa are now, you know, we can say they're. They're siblings. Not really, obviously, but do they get along together? Hundred percent. Giggling, laughing 100%. Yeah. And so they got to spend time alone, too. So it was just like a total mixture of everything. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. So I have two girls, and one of my girls is married, and one of them is not. I love my son in law. I treat him like my own child because he is. He is such a great match for my daughter. I swear, Cam, they are like two peas in a pod. She was my child up until she said, I've met a guy, and it was this guy, I wasn't even sure she was going to get married. She's very fiercely independent. Like, I was wondering who would want her. Like, not really, but you know what I mean? Like, so independent, who would. Who would she allow in her life? Right. But they are so compatible. But the interesting thing, Cam, is my other child bugs him. Not bugs him, but she stresses him out a little bit. So as the mom, I feel like I have to govern that a little bit and soften it. And surprisingly, I am not partial to my biological child. I feel very empathetic and compassionate about my son in law because my older daughter, she's a lot like, I'm a lot. She's a lot like, we can be a lot. And the three of us together, we're like the biggest dog and pony show you've ever seen. So I empathize with him getting kind of lost. And my daughter, who's married to this guy, obviously she manages it really well. So it's a little bit different with two same sex children. And then, you know, you have that different dynamic. Yeah. In our situation, in my family, the girls, my daughter and my daughter in law were friends, actually, before my son started dating her and now married her. So in that situation, they actually played on the same high school soccer team. One was a senior and one was a freshman. So they were only in school one year together, but they had a friendship before it started, or maybe it was two years. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, but they were friends before the marriage, so I think that's helpful. And I'm sure for a minute, you know, my daughter felt like I'm losing my brother, but really she gained a sister. So it's kind of a balance. And it was really joyful, actually, to hear them chatter and laugh and giggle, and it was great. Yeah. And I think that's fantastic and a great way to look at it, what you're gaining instead of what you're losing, because, you know, we can in so many situations, that's the magic, is not looking at what the problem is, but what you be the grateful piece. And I love that. And I, because I was going to ask you, was she, did you know, when the romance was budding, did your daughter feel like, wow, you know, he is. He doesn't pay attention to me anymore because he's got this girl? Well, I'm sure the timing was horrible because that was also during the time of the divorce. And so she was probably like, what? In the world's happening to my little world. So the timing was stinky for her. But they are. They are great friends, everyone. I just feel, like, very comfortable. Well, you know what's different also about our situations? Cam is my son in law's parents are married, so we have to think about that. But your daughter, your daughter in law and son, they have, I'm assuming, her parent, her parents, and then you and their dad. So there's a lot of family, extended family, that they have to, I don't know, not divide time by. I don't know. Do they, do they seem to be okay doing that? Well, you're absolutely right. So when they come back to the Cincinnati area, they do split it between all three of those sections, plus friends, you know, or whatever that are in town. So there is a lot. And I've always, since my divorce, I was always like, it's always quality over quantity, 100%. And so, for example, they're coming in town for a wedding at the end of July, and I will see him for picking him up from the airport, and I'm having dinner with him, and he's having dinner with. My dad will be here, too. And so that's it. We're just, like, making time to happen. And then another day he'll see his dad, and then the rest of the time they'll be involved at the wedding. But it takes intentionality. And he actually said on the phone he feels very grateful when he does fly home that all the families are in the same area, because that was not my case. When I was newlywed. I had parents in St. Louis, parents in Miami, and parents in California. Well, Indianapolis and then California. And it was like, where do you go on holidays, Amelia? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Totally divided up. Yeah, totally. And speaking of that, my daughter has very clear boundaries. She lives in Vermont with her husband, and her in laws also live in North Carolina, but in a different town from us. So a couple of years, they've only been. Well, they've only been married a year, and I think he lived up there for a year before they got married. So we've had two holiday seasons, and both of those we have chosen long time ago, long before they were even dating, that our family holiday of choice is Thanksgiving. And part of that was when I worked in healthcare. Everybody wants Christmas off. And so if I can not be sore about that, because I necessarily wasn't going to get every Christmas off I took Thanksgiving. It just kind of evolved based around my career. So, anyway, for the first two years they were married, they would come to North Carolina twice in a month, once for Thanksgiving and once for Christmas. And it was hard, Cam, I mean, coming from Vermont to North Carolina. So last year, my daughter wasn't brave enough to tell me, but she told her daddy, you know, we're going to begin to come to North Carolina one time for the holiday. We'll come for Thanksgiving one year for you and next year for his parents at Christmas. So this year she will not be coming. And, you know, my father in law passed away on December 22 last year, so it was a weird Christmas anyway. But now, you know when this Thanksgiving, it'll just be my mom and my mother in law and if my, I, my older daughter come. So it really is weird. But, you know, I want to view it as being grateful for what we have had and recognize that as she grows that it's not unreasonable for her to say, I can't come every year because that's a long way and it's a very stressful trip. And who has that much time off of work? So I've had to work at it. I'm not going to lie. I've had to work at that, Grace. And I'm just going to go back to when I was like 24 and I lived in Indiana at the time. Mom and dad both were in St. Louis. And I remember driving on Wednesday night until past midnight back to St. Louis with the two cats and the two kids in the car. And it was like, what are we doing? Right? And then we got here, and my parents were divorced at that point, and then we're splitting time between their houses. And it was just insane. It was like insane. So I'm glad she used her voice and like, is saying, we need to do something different. Yeah. Yeah, me too. And I think it also, when we're forced to make what at the time feels like difficult choices, we're also forging a new path and new traditions for our own self. So last year was the first year she and her husband, well, he was the new guy. The new husband. He wasn't the new guy. He was the new husband. They actually got a Christmas tree. And when the kids, both of my children were home at Thanksgiving, we went through our family Christmas ornaments, and I sent ornaments home. So they're creating their own tradition with their own special time. And I love that for them because to your point, I remember when I was young, even though my drive wasn't long to see my mom and my grandmother, it was stressful to pack gifts and children who might be crying, depending on their ages. It's very. The holidays are so stressful already, so why add more? Exactly. And let's talk about our parents. Because my mom, my dad remarried for a minute. It was more than a minute, let's be honest. But anyway, and my mom has been in a long term relationship for a long time, and I know your mom remarried. Is that accurate? Yes, that is accurate. So let's talk about that. So that's another dynamic. We're not talking about our kids anymore. It's when our parents have another new relationship. How did that change in your house? Oh, that's a really good question. Because when my mother remarried, I was already a grown up, but my stepfather had college age sons. And side note, I'm not looking for sympathy here, but my oldest stepbrother passed away recently of cancer, and it was harder than I thought, Cam. I mean, we touched on this before we hit record, and I'm nothing afraid to or embarrassed to say. It really made me very reflective of my own life. But anyway, the dynamic that changed is I was resentful at first because this man was not my father. And I had to really look at it from the perspective of he has made my mother happy. And I don't know if we have listeners in the same situation or if you have children that have dated someone or married someone you got super attached to, and then the relationship doesn't last. So we all have relationships with others, and then we get attached to that other person. But what the interesting thing, Cam was is my stepfather was a fantastic grandfather to my children, and he was their grandpa until he passed in 2016 or 17, I guess. And I can never, ever, like, repay or say thank you enough because he was amazing. That's so good. Did it change your relationship with your mom? No, not absolutely nothing. My mother loved him, and it was so poignant when he was sick, you know, she cared for him and I thought, you know, she's in her seventies. This is hard. But I watched her care for him, and he was. She loved him sincerely. But no, I mean, we still talked and did things. He was never. He never interfered. And she cared for his kids as much as a 22 year old needs caring for. But no, our relationship was solidified. That's awesome. Did you ever live with your stepbrothers where, you know, so you were never in the same house? Yeah, I never in the same house. Yeah. So in my situation, my ex husband got remarried and my kids had a step sister and a step brother they lived with. So that's a whole nother yeah, that's a whole nother thing. So interesting. Did. Did they live with them? So. But they didn't live with them full time because they lived with you? Some. Did they find that troubling, or did they transition pretty easily? No comment. Okay. All right. Sorry. I shouldn't have asked that. I apologize. It's not my story to tell. That's fair. That's completely fair. And I do have friends, though, Cam, contemporaries that have married people with children. And sometimes it goes great. And these children think of them not as a step parent, but as, like, almost like a surrogate, like an aunt or something. You know what I mean? And sometimes it's difficult. This one friend I have that I'm very close with, she married a man with kids, and her parents even treated these step kids just like they're their own. And she's not married to this guy anymore. But her parents still view these children as her. As their grandkids. So, you know, it is different, but it is. It's not an insurmountable challenge. 100%. I want to go back to your mom and your stepfather. When you visited, were there times where you just hung out with your mom? And were there times that you hung out with all three of you? Or I guess with the stepbrothers, too? That's a great question. The sequence of answers is yes. No, yes. So, yes, I hung out with just my mom. And the reason is, for a while, when my mom first married this man, he delivered papers. He was a night out. Like, he loved to be up till all hours of the morning. And then

he'd go to bed at, like, 03: 16:30

00 a.m. so mom and I are morning people. So we get up and chat and do our morning thing, and it was all fun when my stepbrothers came. Or wait. The no answer was, I didn't do a lot of hanging out with the three of us, with my stepdad, my mom and me. But then when my stepbrothers came, they were young, and they're big guys. They're like, you know, over 6ft tall. They have these. These loud, deep voices. They love a game. The three of them and their dad are super competitive. So whether it's monopoly or dominoes or. Or darts, there was, like, I didn't grow up with boys, so there was this loud, you know, big competitive. And my stepdad was just as competitive as they were. So I observed Cam. I was not brave enough to be a part of all of that, but it was an interesting thing to watch. Yeah. And my situation. I want to talk about my parents. When my father got remarried, it was like we had to be hit with him and her at the same time. We lost just time with him. I guess that's why my question. But now that's changed. Like, we have time with him, and he sends funny memes via text, which I don't even know how he knows how to do that, but he does, you know? And then the same with my mom. Like, it's really important that I hang out with just her and just her and her person. I don't know. I think that's the mixture. And whenever I feel out of balance, it's because I'm going to say the word forced. That's not the right word. But when you're forced to be all together, when you don't have that bonding, there's something about your family. Like, I just feel like I need some one on one time with just my family and then also some one on one time with the extra people. I guess that's a summary. That's my summary. And I think when you do that, it nourishes so much, right? Like, it nourishes and reinforces the relationship with your person, whether it's your parent or your child. But I think if you don't spend time with the extra, whether it's your mom's boyfriend or your son in law or daughter in law, think you're just selling yourself and that person short. I am not. Like, I have cousins and their spouse is called their mother mom. Even though they have moms, I don't expect my son in law to call me mom. He has a mom, and I respect her, so that is not my comfort zone. And honestly, Cam, that's another kind of weirdness. I don't know what. I don't know what he should call me. My husband is really. I don't know, maybe he's changed his tune. But when my daughters dated boys, especially when they're in their older teens, he insisted that they call him mister. It was Mister Kirkland. That wasn't, you know, it wasn't even Mister Patrick. It was Mister Kirkland. He was very clear that this is what I want. Is that southern Amelia? What is that? I guess, like, I don't know, but it was almost like this is a sign of respect. And I expect you to say, yes, sir, and call me this. I'm not that firm about it. So with my mother in law, I always say, hey, it's Amelia. I don't say, I don't address her at all. And I don't think my son in law addresses me, either. She doesn't know what we say. I know because I haven't told him. Like, I haven't said, oh, this is what you should call me. So I don't know what my daughter calls her in laws. I guess I should ask her. Yeah, well, my daughter in law calls me cam, so that's the answer. I was like, what does she call me? That's what she calls me. Yeah. And is that okay with you? 100%? Yep. 100%. When I was a newlywed at 24, I felt like my first husband wanted his mom wanted me to call her mom. And I didn't know. Like, I was. She was very motherly, like, taught me how to sew and cook and all the things and very nurturing, but I did not know what to do with that. Cause I just didn't grow up that way. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like. I don't know. And even if my son in law said something, and he was like, oh, it's not disrespectful. My mom wouldn't care. I don't know. It makes me uncomfortable. My mom is from Delaware, and there's very. A very unique culture in that area about what you call people. And it's all very family oriented. Like, if you're a grandmother, everyone is my mom. That's just what you call your grandmother. And all the grandpas are pop up, you know, like everybody. There's no differentiation between your maternal and your paternal. So I think it just depends on your culture about how you address these. I do think, to your point, if you're calling your in laws by their first name, it does have a bonding effect. I mean, you know, it's any awkwardness, I think can cause, you know, you to feel a little uncomfortable. Yeah, just get over it. But I guess you do need to have a conversation. Like, what do you want to be called? Amelia? What is it? You know, I don't know. I mean, I guess I should talk to my daughter about that. You know, I'm not a grandmother yet, and I've often said, I thought to myself, what do I want to be called if I'm ever a grandmother? And I still don't know the answer to that, either. I told my daughter I want to be called Granny. She's like, did you really? Why not? My mom picks Nana, so that's what she picked. And I was like, I don't want grandma. Let's call me Granny. I don't know. I kind of like Nana, though. I really do. I kind of like Nana. And it sounds like it would be easy to say, I don't know, but, you know, just another one of those nuances. And when you're sitting around watching your netflix and pondering the next 20 years, you can decide, what am I going to be called when I'm a grandmother? Yeah. Right. I have grand dogs. That's as far I know you do, too. So, yeah, we have grand dogs. And I do love my granddaughters. Both of them are very much representations of their owners, which is hysterical. Yeah. Right now I'm recording in a closet in my mom's house, and my husband has been home with the past two weeks with his, I guess, granddaughter and grand cat. So he has six animals at the house right now. My mom's like, he's a saint. I'm like, I know, mom. I know it. He has my daughter's cat and dog. That's why. Anyway. And, I mean, you know, your husband has a child as well, so, you know, you've had it from all angles, from your kids having step siblings, from you to, you know, you being a step mom of sorts. So, you know, I think this episode is, you know, we started off talking about your, you, your kids and their extra people, but we all have extra people, right? We all have extended family. And I think, to your point, in the very beginning was so good about how we navigate, and it's not that hard if we can see these relationship as additive. We don't see it as someone's been taken away, but something we gain 100%. It reminds me of the book, the gap and the gain. Don't focus on what you've lost. Focus on what you've gained and find the positive. I think being, I guess, a mother in law, I just feel really relaxed about it. I just want to have a good relationship and good visits with my kids. My kids live all over the country, one on each coast at this point. And, you know, when we're together, it's special, and I want to make it special and make and honor it, respect it, find gratitude, rather than get all worried about. I didn't see them enough or. I don't know. Right. It's just not worth it because I felt that as a young adult, when they were they, when they were my age or when I was their age, I'm sorry. I felt that pressure coming back to St. Louis for holidays and Indianapolis. It was just a lot, and I don't ever want to do that to my kids. So, you know, that's so good, because I hadn't framed it up like that because I had that same pressure feeling. And, you know, when I was growing up, too, holidays were such a big deal that if one slightly off thing happened, it threw my energy off cam, because, you know, the american ideal is that holidays are always special. Everybody gets along the Norman Rockwell painting. And the reality is that that's so far from most people's holiday experience, with or without your extra people. And so I want my kids to be free to do what they want to do, and I think that they are, but I have to be honest. I did. When my husband's like, I need to tell you something. You know, they're not coming home this year for thanksgiving. I was a little wounded. Like, oh, how could that be? They know this is special, but framing it up like you did makes me think, you know, you're just being selfish here. This is ridiculous. Well, and it's a chance for you to create a new tradition on those every other years. You know, this is something that's happened since. I am a stepmom now. I've been married almost three years. They used to split the actual day in half with the son, and that's crazy. And I've been there, and that's no fun going half the day to one house and half the day the other house and overeating and feeling crummy and not enjoying anything, not being present. And so that's a new tradition I brought to my stepson, I guess, is, you know, pick a day. You and your ex wife pick a day, and that's your day, and you have your holiday, then you don't need to actually split the actual day. I just think that's silly. I love that, Cam, because it gives them more freedom. And also, I know the vast majority of the american public doesn't buy into this, but it's a day, like, if you want, if you can celebrate Christmas on the 26th or the 27th, you know, like, it doesn't have to be December 25. And if you can kind of embrace that, it makes your life so less stressful. Well, sure, you could do Christmas Eve day and Christmas day, like, if, you know, whatever. But, you know, Thanksgiving, you have a four day weekend. Exactly. Just figure it out. But no one wants to rush from one place to the other, like, be fully present at the place you are in and then go to the next place and love it instead of worrying about the clock and. Yeah, I hated that. Amelia, can you tell? Yeah, I can. And who wouldn't like I think that's a valid emotion. Do your kids visit each other? They have, absolutely. So my daughter and daughter in law went to Washington state together before that. My kids moved there before, before they were married. Even. My daughter has visited them when they lived in Florida. Yes, they have. They visited her when she lived in Denver and Boulder. So, yes. Okay. So independent of me, which is a beautiful. Yeah, I love that as well. Yeah, mine do, too. Not as much as they did. I know when my daughter moved to Vermont, her sister, who was living in New Jersey the very first weekend, actually drove the five and a half hours. I mean, basically she drove probably a Friday night or early on a Saturday and came back on Sunday. But it was just to say I wanted to see you here. I know you're going to be okay. I know this is stressful, but we have met. Like, there was one of the times, I think it was February of 23, my daughter from Vermont flew down to New Jersey so that we could be together. So they are very close, and I am very appreciative that they have each other because I know just based on some kind of offhand comments that they share a lot with each other that they don't necessarily share with me. So, you know, they need each other. I'm glad that they do that. I love that. I just spent the week with my sister at my mom's house, and so that was lovely. And then she's going to come visit maybe in August when my dad moves to Kentucky. So, yeah, it was really, it was really fun. It was really fun to hang out with my sister like this as adults, as 54 and 55 year olds, you know, I don't know. It was good. That's really awesome. Did, when you got married the first or it doesn't matter which time or your sister got married, was there a lot of interaction between the brother in laws? Yes, we were actually talking about that. We used to go on family vacations, actually in North Carolina, and we would rent the big house on the pool, on the beach with the pool and all the things, and all the families would come. And when she lived in Atlanta, that was super easy. They would drive up, we would drive over, and then we would hang out in these houses. And it was such a joyous time. My kids actually brought it up last week. Remember that beach vacation? Yeah. So, yes, the brother in laws actually did get along and that was very fun. And then, you know, moving and life happened and then that stopped. So, yeah, I get it. I mean, and I think that's another beautiful thing is the flexibility. We talk about this in most of the episodes because everything we talk about has to do with awakening and change and flexibility. And here's another, another avenue, another aspect of our lives, where if you can embrace this rather than brace for it, that's another one of our sayings, is embrace, don't brace. It just makes it so much easier. You know, we hang on to things sometimes beyond their, their usefulness. And if you do have someone in your life, if your parent who's seeing someone new, or your children, you know, trying to hold on to that old stuff, you might be the one suffering. If you don't let go of some. Of that 100%, you're going to store that negative stuff in your body and then you're going to have a shoulder ache or a bellyache or something's going to happen. Yeah, there's no need for that. It was beautiful wisdom, Amelia. Yeah, well, you know, it's just that, you know, it's so funny because I swear we need to have t shirts made up with some of our isms because there's so concepts that just can be applied across the spectrum of life that just happens to be one of them, you know, whether we're talking about food or exercise or relationships. And that's, you know, not to get too sappy for our listeners, but this nourishes me. I mean, I hope it, you know, it nourishes our listeners, but it really nourishes me to have the talk and to go back and listen to this stuff because it's valuable. Thanks for listening today. You can find us on instagram at. Midlife Mommas for all of our other contact info. Check out the show description below and we will talk to you next week.