Most of us in Midlife are no stranger to loss. At some point in our lives, we've experienced the loss of a grandparent or older family member. But what about other losses? The loss of a good friend, the loss of a career, or the loss of our health can all throw us for a loop.
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Cam's sweet friend Debby, who was a co-teacher with Cam for many years.
This episode is both touching and comforting as we explore different types of loss, but also ways of coping. This can be through social networks, supplements, and sticking to our 'minimums' through times of grief and stress.
We hope this episode comforts you and informs you, and if it resonates, please like and share.
00:02:16 Teaching partner's death triggers immense grief.
00:05:27 Friendship needs common elements to survive.
00:09:44 Gradual identity shift as children leave home.
00:11:39 Leaving exercise identity is challenging and impactful.
00:14:44 Agreeing about forgetting to buy tampons.
00:17:07 Painful memories of father's passing linger.
00:20:55 I admire her calm and confident presence.
00:24:17 Taking action helps with social support.
00:26:49 Loss is part of life, social media misrepresents.
00:30:42 Loss is common; culture lacks preparation.
Stay Connected!
Amelia
Cam
Midlife Mommas IG: https://www.instagram.com/midlife.mommas/
Please share, rate, and review the podcast. We appreciate you! ❤️
Most of us in Midlife are no stranger to loss. At some point in our lives, we've experienced the loss of a grandparent or older family member. But what about other losses? The loss of a good friend, the loss of a career, or the loss of our health can all throw us for a loop.
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Cam's sweet friend Debby, who was a co-teacher with Cam for many years.
This episode is both touching and comforting as we explore different types of loss, but also ways of coping. This can be through social networks, supplements, and sticking to our 'minimums' through times of grief and stress.
We hope this episode comforts you and informs you, and if it resonates, please like and share.
00:02:16 Teaching partner's death triggers immense grief.
00:05:27 Friendship needs common elements to survive.
00:09:44 Gradual identity shift as children leave home.
00:11:39 Leaving exercise identity is challenging and impactful.
00:14:44 Agreeing about forgetting to buy tampons.
00:17:07 Painful memories of father's passing linger.
00:20:55 I admire her calm and confident presence.
00:24:17 Taking action helps with social support.
00:26:49 Loss is part of life, social media misrepresents.
00:30:42 Loss is common; culture lacks preparation.
Stay Connected!
Amelia
Cam
Midlife Mommas IG: https://www.instagram.com/midlife.mommas/
Please share, rate, and review the podcast. We appreciate you! ❤️
The general definition of loss is the act or process of losing something or someone. It refers to a state in which something of value, importance, or significance is no longer present or available. Hi. I'm Cam, Holistic health coach, mom to 2 humans and for pets. Hi. I'm Amelia, laboratory scientist by day and food scientist by night. Welcome to our show. Join us as we share our holistic approach to life after 50. You can expect real life stories with a dash of humor and a ton of truth. If it happens in midlife, we're going to talk about it. So hit that subscribe button and follow along. We're the Midlife Mommas. So today on the podcast, we're gonna tackle a little bit of a heavy subject, but we're gonna bring the midlife mama spin on loss, to kind of, get through some emotions and just talk about kinds of loss, and how we might deal with each because there's many different kinds of loss. Absolutely. Friendships, identity, health, Losing a parent, losing a friend, all kinds of financial. There's all kinds of law. Your sports, losses a lot losses very broad. Talked about this before, Cam, in different types of episodes, especially with our athletic backgrounds, the loss of the identity, the person we were when we were really deep into that life, but there's there are other aspects and I think in midlife just like we've talked about so many times before, it is a time of awakening and change, but sometimes change involves losing something in order to gain something else. I mean, that's exactly it. And it's very uncomfortable during the loss process when you say, I mean, yeah. Yeah. And it's uncomfortable, but that's where all the growth happens. And then you get To the other side and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Absolutely. And we've talked about, peep the the people in your life changing through a move or through you've moved to a different stage in your life or even death. So let's just process a little bit the loss of a friendship. Yeah. So recently, Teaching partner, she was my teaching partner for 11 years. Out of my 18 years, she passed away. And so that's where this topic came from. I had immense grief over losing her, and it's really interesting because we were very close when we were teaching. But when I Left the classroom in 2009 because my world was crumbling. I just broke all ties with my school. I've told that story before and Even though and she was a very private person and then she knew I was going something through something, she let me be private and And I've really struggled with that. Why, like, why didn't we keep him better in touch? She was my literally my partner for 11 years, like we were in each other's classrooms for 11 years. I don't know. So do you think at that point in 2009, maybe she went through some kind of loss when she lost your I won't say lost your friendship, but lost that daily presence in her life. I'm sure her changing her work environment completely changed. They went through a series of trying to find a replacement for me And I know the first one didn't work out so well, and then Debbie ended up leaving a few years later. Yeah. And so I'm sure it was different. I'm sure I rocked her world. I think she treated in in retrospect, she treated my turmoil very private as if She would want her turmoil. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. Right. Right. So And you know Go ahead. Sorry. Loss of friendships don't aren't always through that. I mean, when someone on passes, it's very very final. Right? Like you you're not gonna get that person back or those opportunities back. But friendship loss can be through the form of a move, 1 or both of you has moved or it could be just a change of a season of life. So, I think of the types of of losses we're gonna cover today. I think in some respects, this is the easiest only because the other ones for me personally seems so much harder. And I haven't been through a friend who has passed where it's so final, but I've suffered through the grief which is nothing like what you experienced Cam, so I don't wanna diminish that. But I've had gone through a grieving process of losing friends who have moved away or who I no longer see because we're at different stages of life. And and really recognizing that this is grief over this loss or change, I think is an important part of the processing process if you will. I agree with that. There was someone I used to hang out with in my forties. Well, I can tell 2 stories, 1 in my thirties and 1 in my forties. And I remember both of these women. Okay. So we've changed, our seasons of life have changed, their situation, my situation, something's changed. And then I remember trying to get back together and Do one more thing or go one more, you know, and it just didn't work out. Have you ever had that experience? Oh, a 100%. And I think that that that that's a healthy realization as well. And sometimes that that one thing that you tried to kind of wiggle in helps you with closure. Right? Like you realize, oh, well, this is a relationship that needs to die natural death because I've definitely felt that. And sometimes Cam, I feel like our friendship when when we do have that emotional or physical distance from one another, we don't strike the conversation isn't as easy just because our friends in in my world, I guess, I view my friends are those people I enter act with regularly. Now, I have friends that I don't see that frequently, that I still consider friends, but it's that conversation, you gotta have something in common whether it's for my college friends, I don't see those women but about 4 times a year they're most definitely still my friends. But we shared day to day life for 4 years. So that's so common, but I have other friends that I've made, you know, in my adult life, we were casual friends and once that was over, like our kids are grown if it was, my children's friends, parents, that's not enough to ground us into something to hold the relationship. So from a, if you wanna say this because we were talking about math before we hit record, if you're talking about this quantitatively, there has to be enough common elements to actually hold it together. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Totally agree with that and you know, it's okay that Friends move on or you move on for whatever reason. I just think it's a really interesting aspect trying to go back and like, oh, one more time, let's just see if this really is over. I don't know. I agree with you. My daughter dated a guy twice in different time periods and I thought the same thing. I mean, They were together for a while, they broke up and I don't remember why. And then she actually asked him like, oh, I wanna get back together and it was a very short thing, you know, like the 2nd rate or the reunion was very important. It's like, okay, we're done. But they needed to find that out and maybe that's true for friendships as well. I think so. I've had another shift recently in my mom identity, and I know I've been an empty nester for many, many years. But On October 1st, my son deployed and this feels scarier. I don't know. More Sure. More real this time and my daughter moved to Florida And like she's gone forever, Emilia. She's moving on. So did this involve her coming home and getting things out of her room or her personal possession. Yeah. That's tough when they take the stuff. Yeah. Like the re the, like, the legal birth certificate. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm fairly proud of her for spreading her wings and she's got this new independence and I'm really practicing your embracing versus bracing concepts because I know she's doing her thing and she starts school Monday and I'm so proud of her and I'm sad at the same time. Of course, you are. So what do you do like when you if you walk by her room or in her room or if you approach a space where her things would be, but now they're not. How do you process that? Like, if you have that stab in your heart that you're sad, then then what's the next step? Well, here's the thing. So she when she lived here, this is a new home to her. She never, like, lived here. You know what I mean? Sure. Because I moved Right? In 2020. And so, anyway, my office is her room, so it never felt like her room or my office, honestly. That's one of the things. But What I do do is we still have our Snapchat street going or I'll text her or I'll call her. Yeah. Just keeping in touch And also knowing she needs to do her own thing. So there's like a space, I need to give her space. So interesting. My separation from my children seemed more gradual. My older child left home and hasn't been back to live. She left when she was 18. She hasn't been back here to live. And interestingly enough, Cam, she resided in what in our home we called the little bedroom until she was about 15. And then because she was 15, she decided to move in our extra bedroom, which actually has an en suite bath. So because she was kind of transient between 2 rooms and there wasn't she she was, I think when we moved in this house, I think she was about 7. So somehow that transition was easier. Now, my younger daughter when she was in college, she came home for the summers. And her room is exactly where I'm sitting right now as we record, I'm looking at the 2 blue walls and the 2 green walls because that's what she chose to paint it. And so I guess that that hasn't happened for me even though that kid is married and lives in another state. So, you know, if we move and I took all of the the posters down and things like that it might be more abrupt for me. But so far I'm like, yeah, they're gone, but it didn't, I think it the shift in in my identity was more gradual. Yeah. I guess this one, I mean, I've been an empty nester for a while, so, you know, my kids are 24 and 27. It's like This just seems more grown up. I don't know. Sure. Maybe so. Maybe so. Yeah. And you There was bonus time with Alyssa too because 2020, everything shut down. So she came back to college and then 21 and then she came home for, you know, 6 months this summer before she start starting school again. So I realize that I've had this grateful bonus time and so anyway, that's where I am. And you know, Cam, that bonus time, I because I didn't have that with my hid. I wonder if that reset your mommy meter, you know what I mean? Like, you know, she was gone and, oh, now she's here and cognitively you knew this is temporary, but that bond was allowed to solidify and grow greater roots and now, you know, it's kinda been ripped apart. Yeah. College in 2020, I was living Not in this house, but my other house in Kentucky. And we really got close, and it was really fun having her around during that time. And, again, Isn't the stat like over 90% of your time with your kids is high school? Yep. It was, you know, so I mean, I feel really lucky. But anyway, I'm feeling better about it because, you know, it's the end of October now, so I've had a few weeks to adjust. This is so interesting, but, you know, You and I both put down an identity of some sort of extreme exerciser. And I say extreme only because it was, like, when you were CrossFitter and when I was roughly, but it could be anything maybe even if it's just a you're a rec league soccer player or, you're on the PTA and that's related to parenthood but it's not parenthood. So whatever that role is that you've moved on from, it it does affect who we are and I will tell you, gosh, I shouldn't admit this on air, but my putting down my triathlon on identity was harder than putting down my mom identity because it was abrupt. Like like I in 2012 had a really bad bike accident and broke my arm, had to have surgery, and I haven't raced again, like that was it. Mhmm. And so at first, it was a medical departure, but then somehow I just never could get back in it and part of me was like, I don't miss it and the other part of me was, who am I without this activity? Yeah. Because we use it to identify ourselves. Sure. Sure. I know. I know. It's very interesting. Did you notice a loss of identity when you change jobs? I'm curious. Not as much because that's a great question. And even though it was a definitive career change, I went from performing laboratory test to selling equipment that does that testing, and I'm still in the science. So what what the part of me that misses it is that direct patient care, like where I was providing life saving services for patients every day. So I always feel a little bit like an imposter now because it feels a little icky to sell something to people that need to do that job rather than doing the job myself. So that from that perspective maybe, but by and large, not not terribly Understand. That makes sense. It was hard for me to put down my teacher identity, and it was like at a crisis. So it was like, do I stay married? Do I stay divorced? What do I do? Yeah. Yeah. But it was still like That's who that's who I was, and so, yeah, very interesting. It's very interesting the different weaves, the ups and downs of life. For sure. So the next one is a little more can be, profound for some people. And this is a change in health status. So, you know, at our age, Cam, let's face it, we've talked to Holly Bertone and she just had me enthralled. She was diagnosed with breast cancer at a fairly young age. And so there are other people in our age group that hopefully are our listeners that may have had a cancer diagnosis or some other health scare, maybe they were diagnosed with some chronic illness and this can change who you've how you feel or how you identify with yourself for sure. Well, in in any way, we lose our period and we go into Oh, yeah. Loss. There is that. That's pretty huge. Right? Yeah. It is. It's like a, You know, and we started this whole podcast because we knew nothing about it. We're just trying to figure it out. And so it's it's shocking when you lose your period and then you're in this other stage of life, I think. I agree with you. I literally told this story to my husband, like, 35 minutes ago. We were watching a little bit of TV and I think there was a commercial for commercial for some sort of feminine product. And something came up about, like, that time, and I told him this lady at church 2 weeks ago or 3 weeks ago, asked me if I had anything in my pocketbook because her daughter had started her period. And I looked at her like she had sprouted another head because I thought, I can't tell you the last time that I carried such a thing. So I forget that people still need that. And one of my core group of friends who's probably, I'm thinking she's in her forties, she's like, oh, don't worry, I've got something and I thought, This is completely foreign to me. Like, I don't even think to when my kids come home, I don't even think to buy tampons to put in the bathroom. So it's that start for me. Like, I don't even know what that is anymore. Well, yeah, it's funny. When I think back on, like, having a hysterectomy, I think there was a morning Period of losing my uterus. I think Yeah. There wasn't I wasn't gonna have any more babies, but it was something about I don't know. That makes you a woman. Right? You have uterus and you have ovaries and that's where your hormones are made and then that's gone. And then and then the health The health ramifications of that, which I had literally no idea. Amelia, I really thought it was gonna solve all my problems and instead it opened up Whole another can of worms, which is fine. I'm good, but it was shocking. Your experience was different though. Yeah. Mine was more gradual. I I didn't I wasn't thrust into surgical menopause. I didn't think about it in those terms, because I didn't have to, because it was more gradual. But I do I haven't talked to many people, that have had a chronic illness like start around this time to have to deal with, but I can imagine just based on like when I broke my arm and I was that's been well over 12 years ago now, but, you know, it was huge trying to adjust to what I couldn't couldn't do during recovery. And if you have chronic illness, if it has limited what you can physically do, that's kind of a big deal. Not kind of a big deal, it is a big deal. Mhmm. Yeah. And adjusting to what was and what is now Exactly. From a loss for sure. Exactly. Yeah. Losing a parent, a mentor, a family friend, I know that you went through this with your father. I did. And Cam, I have to admit when I was going through when he was climbing and then the hospital. It was just hard, like, I did I couldn't identify really what the emotion was other than difficult. But, the loss of a parent, even though my dad and I had our ups and downs, for sure, we lived in different cities and we have different views on a lot of things. Our relationship wasn't contentious, but it was definitely not as close as I am with my mom. But since his passing, there are points where something will trigger a memory and it's extremely painful. For instance, I was looking for a blank notebook, a couple of weeks or maybe it was this week, honestly. I pulled open a drawer, I picked up a blank notebook and underneath it were was some lab sheets that the hospital had printed, when he was in the hospital. And I didn't cry, Cam, but I felt a little bit not sick to my stomach, but kinda like I've been punched in the stomach. And so losing someone that close, you know, and I do have a friend who lost an adult child, which I cannot even imagine, but people that are super close to you when they has, again, it's kinda like your friend. The loss is very final. It's not like a rift in the relationship and it takes a tremendous amount of time, and concerted energy and self awareness to heal even modestly from from that. I yeah. I agree. I've lost my mom my mother-in-law and that was, tragic and and also a relief because her body wasn't her body anymore, and I know she was suffering. And so in a way, she was free. And I just have this beautiful picture of her Doing what she's doing in heaven and visiting all of us and smiling and traveling and all the things that she couldn't do at the end of her life. So that's how I view that situation. I think that's so healthy, Cam. And I think depending on the loss, that may be harder or easier, but it's a super healthy way to view things. And quite frankly, that's at my dad's, the very end, the last few hours of his life, that's what my husband kept telling me is he's gone. Like, you know, he was on life support and, you know, he this this is his body's worn out, like he's not able to come back from this and to get relief. And as my husband also says, there are worse things than dying and that can be living and horrendous pain that is just there's no coming back from it. And I I think about that often because we think of death as some horrible thing when it's really not. We're all gonna pass and it's part of life. And for some people, it's huge relief. You know, there was a book that really did my perspective on the whole situation. It's called imagine heaven. We've talked about it before, but these were near death experiences and these people of All walks of life, all ages, you know, kids, adults, professions, it didn't matter, came back and reported what happened when they had a near death experience. And so for me, that book, Imagine Heaven, gave me a brighter outlook. It's not scary, it's freedom. Right. I don't know that I'm there. So I'm literally writing this down, I'm writing the book down that I can order. Linda, we did an episode on on reading material and I know that was one of your things. Mhmm. But I'm gonna get it. The author spoke at our church and then we got the book and when Dan's listened to the auto book audiobook. But, yeah, it's just comforting to me. And this happened right around when my My mother-in-law passed and I was like, okay. Yeah. She's doing all the things. All the things those people said they saw like the colors and the light and yeah. So that's what she's doing right now. That's amazing, and I love that you I'm so jazzed about getting this book, and I've got another one of my close friends. We had There's a group of about 6 or 7 of us from church that we've done a trip together and we're pretty close. And this particular lady, she's always had that view and I've always marveled. I've known this woman for probably 15 years and she's just got this presence about her Cam, this calmness, this piece about her, that's confidence in this very thing that I've often not had. Like, I haven't had that trust that the afterlife is going to be better than what's here because I don't know what that is. Like all I know is what I have and I don't wanna lose that and I don't, that includes the people that I love. So it makes me anxious and nervous, but I'm learning as I age to embrace this idea of freedom and I love that you brought that up. Well, yeah, I hope it's helpful. I really do. I really do. It is totally helpful. Yeah. Exactly. But, you know, when we have lost even if it's the loss of a loved one that was hurting, we do still have to process for ourselves. So one of the things I wanna touch on is, you know, the minimums when we're going through loss that will help us actually get through it. I won't say unscathed because there will be some scarring. Mhmm. But how can what are those minimums? What might that look like? Well, social support, keeping your healthy habits, and your positive mindset. But I'll be honest, last Friday, Saturday, I told Amelia, I ate a whole bunch of carbs. I didn't I ate my feelings last weekend and I didn't stay there long. I stayed there for 24 hours and then I was like, okay. Yeah. Back Back to my healthy habits. And, you know, I think we have to recognize that, Cam, and not beat ourselves up. We've talked to we talk a lot about giving ourselves grace and I think that's what you did. You know? Mhmm. It's okay to not be okay. Yeah. And I told my group the story last weekend. You know, in the past, maybe I would eat my emotions and not know it. And so this time, I was completely aware of what I was doing, and so it's still a win. It wasn't, you know, the healthiest thing, but yet it's still a win because I saw myself doing what I was doing. So, you know, anyway. Yeah. I I think that's a super helpful and healthy way to approach it. You know, if we thought if we're not we would never advocate, oh, you know, you're not you're not gonna have any repercussions, you know, certainly are and changing some of the things and kind of allowing yourself to go into that mindset is okay for a little bit, I think. You know, because sometimes it's like, why is this happening and it you can even say why is this happening to me? And having a little pity party might be something that you need to do in order to process that grief. I mean, divorce taught me that. It's really good to feel your emotions and, like, where are they in your body and name them and, like, all those things versus Shoving them down, and it goes to brace versus embrace. Like, if you're just bracing white knuckling through life and Yeah. That's really no way to live. So whatever. That's how I did it. And also I, saw a girlfriend 2 days last weekend. Dan was out of town when all this happened, and We went to open houses and we looked at houses and when it was sunny and we drove around and talked and we went yeah. So that's what we did. So getting out of the house and away from my car was Really helpful being around a friend. Yeah. And so that speaks to social support, but it also is kind of doing. A lot of times, not necessarily with the loss, but with other things. I I tell myself doing something, like when I'm stressed about all the things I've got to do for work and family and home, doing something even if it's a tiny thing. Alright, you know, today I'm going to go through the refrigerator and throw out anything that's, you know, needs to be thrown out or I'm going to to at this time of year, take all the summer closeout and put the fall close in. Those false tiny things, actually, action does help. So great job on, you know, redirecting a little bit. Yeah. And my default is still, I have the urge to go running, which I haven't done in a really long time. So that must be ingrained in me because when I was in my forties going through separation divorce, My way to cope with that loss was to literally run and do CrossFit. And so I had that urge, but I didn't. Instead, I ate some pizza and met with my friends. So I don't know. It's Still there. Super interesting. Mhmm. But, you know, this kinda goes back to our talk with our 2 talks with Holly. Using gratitude to overcome loss, I think that is hard. I I think that takes an evolved person. I I think I can get there in most situations, but it's not an immediate default response for me, because, you know, I do believe that we can get through virtually anything except for our own death and part of living fully, and I'd have to go back and listen to Holly's episode, is recognizing and being grateful for what I do have. You know what I mean? Mhmm. Yeah. It goes back to reframing for me. And it's okay to have a pity party. Like, I really wanna say that. It's okay to feel sad for a second. You know? It's slow when we don't wanna get stuck there. I used to work with a counselor. His name was Michael, who's also passed. Very, very special mentor in my life through my forties. Anyway, when you have emotions and they get stuck in you, then they become moods, and we don't want that to happen. I just really enjoy the way he taught that. And so Feeling your emotions, naming them, locating them in your physical body. Like, do you have a lump in your throat or does your belly hurt? That's mine. I get lumps in my throat and, you know, this feeling in my belly. Those are mine. Some people feel it in their heart. Anyway, naming the emotion, locating in your body, And then asking for it to be released or move or, you know, you just don't want it to get stuck in a mood. Exactly. I love that differentiation. Mhmm. And recognizing we've already said this, but recognizing that loss is a part of life and this kinda goes back to the, embrace and don't brace. And I think, Cam, One of the things that's really hampered this sort of progression through loss is social media because we see everyone's highlight reels, which implies that they don't have downtimes or loss and that's totally not true. So there's no cultural frame of reference for how to process this cause we're quote, I'm using air quotes here, expected to look happy and be happy and all the things all the time. And I think our generation is probably pretty realistic about the fact that loss is a part of life, but I do worry about younger people. My children have experienced loss through the loss of a pet, and that's kind of their 1st introduction to what it feels like to lose something that you love. And surely, you know, most people undergo that, but the idea that I don't think we should hide that from our children that death is part of life or loss is part of life. It it it is that's just truth. I agree with you. We have 4 elderly parent or pets in this house, So I I look at them all the time and that crosses my mind. And also, if you wanna see me cry like a fool, not really a fool. I'm very, like, Emotional. There's a TikTok video of me talking about my friend that passed anyway, and I'm crying in the sauna. And Oh my gosh. It's very raw. I was like, here we go. I feel like I need to get this out so TikTok world got to see me. Well, good for you for being open with that and sharing it because your loss may have helped someone else who was trying to bottle that up. So I mean, I think that's I think that's what we're doing, Amelia, is being very public with our life, and we've got Social media and we have this podcast and we're just spilling our beans. So Yeah. Absolutely. But just a couple more things about mindsets, you know, and this is kind of silly. But when we think about our life and what the gifts that we're given, we came into the world with nothing and we're gonna leave with nothing. And so this dust to dust concept is not so much about the attachments of your people, but to things. So if you're if the loss is a move, you could feel a real loss for a family home. But I like to choose to to embrace the change and say, I didn't lose the house because I still have the memories of the place, but I'm moving on so I can experience something else. So just kind of and also what helps me Cam is when I get really kind of down in the dumps or whatever about all of my quote problems, I'm just a tiny spec on the planet. Right? Like, there's so many people and so much going on. Just realizing my own smallness is a little bit like, okay. It's okay now. Yeah. It would life would be easier if we could just get past our own stuff and just like Totally. Yeah. The dust to dust reminds me of the dash, and I don't remember the poem, but it was about Something about the dash. So you have your year you're born and the year you pass, and the dash is all of the beautiful things. I don't remember the poem, but Yeah. But that's cool. Yeah. The dash is we wanna have for me, I wanna have all the adventures I wanna go, I wanna do, I wanna be with people. Those are more important than the the quote, unquote things Sure. For me. Yeah. I was watching a a home show before we hit record, word, and they were talking about emotionally pricing your homes. And so there was a a situation on the show I was watching, and they were pricing their home to sell based on their emotions of their home versus like what the actual home is worth. So that's what that reminded me of. That's very normal, I think. I think it's normal too. But these are all like super interesting and, you know, again, I think our culture kind of doesn't prepare us for loss. So, I mean, I hope this has been really helpful for people, because I know it has been for me, and I hope it has been for you because your loss is very recent and it just seemed it seemed like a good subject to bring up because, you know, a lot of people are going through some kinda loss. Thank you for being my friend, Amelia. Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for listening today. You can find us on Instagram@midlife.mommas. For all of our other contact info, So check out the show description below, and we will talk to you next week.