Using Alternative Therapies- Sauna, red light, cryotherapy

We all want great health, right? But what strategies do we utilize to get it?
We know about exercise, eating healthfully, and taking supplements. But what if there were other things that could help?  Well, it turns out that there are other things that can help.
In this episode, we talk about 'alternative' therapies, but as you'll learn, these aren't so alternative, and they're certainly not new. Join us as we talk about sauna, red light therapy, and cryotherapy. We let you know what these things do, how they make you feel, and much more. We hope that you enjoy this, and in true Midlife Mommas style, be an experiment of one and try one (or all) of these out for yourself!

00:00 Cryotherapy and health investments for better living.
06:52 Enjoying self-reflection, red light therapy's history.
09:56 Scar tissue is part of body healing.
13:44 Easily accessible wellness center with alternative therapies.
14:39 Regular sauna use's benefits and frequency uncertainty.
19:09 Consider sauna's impact on heart conditions; seek medical advice.
21:33 Standing in a giant barrel, breathing nitrogen.
24:02 Wearing various clothes and mask to sauna.
27:02 Adjust robe to expose lower back and belly.
31:00 Cold water helps blood circulation and elasticity.
33:36 Personal wellness is individual, find what works.

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Amelia

• Website: https://www.thehelpfulplate.com/
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/thehelpfulplate/

Cam

• Website: https://www.camoyler.com/
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Transcript

0:00

Cam, it's been such a crazy week, and last week I was working 14 hour a days. What am I gonna do? Have you ever tried red light therapy? Hi. I'm Cam, Holistic health coach, mom to 2 humans and 4 pets. Hi. I'm Amelia, laboratory scientist by day and food scientist by night. Welcome to our show. Join us as we share our holistic approach to life after 50. You can expect real life stories with a dash of humor and a ton of truth. If it happens in midlife, we're going to talk about it. So hit that subscribe button and follow along. We're the Midlife Mommas. It's so good. Welcome to the show everybody. We are so excited to talk about some alternative slash I don't know, Cam. They the I was gonna say alternative therapies, to help you live your best midlife. Yes, it's not gonna be the answer to all your problems, but it could definitely be a tool that you cam pull out in days when you're working 14 hours for sure. And that that's really isolated for me, Cam. It was it is actually true, but that's not a usual thing. But, you know, I think in midlife, we want to live our best midlife, and kind of the bandwidth that we had in our twenties thirties just with regard to mental and physical capacity may not be the same. So there are other things we can do to help us relax more, help us sleep better. We've talked about a ton of those things. We talk about a few of them every week, but here's some specific things that, we want to share that you can add. Yeah. So this week we're gonna talk about sauna, red light therapy, and cryotherapy, and, you know, specifically. And I would just like to point out that in midlife, because of the loss of our sex hormones, in particular estrogen, our bandwidth for stress is greatly diminished. And there are 2 hormones that we have control over. 1 is insulin, which is your blood sugar and the food that you eat and the order that you eat it, all that stuff we talk about often, but also cortisol. So these are tools in your tool chest that actually are a healthy kind of stress that makes you more resilient on the other side of it. And, yeah, I noticed personally my sleep is better. So No. And I love that. And, you know, cortisol, if you've been following us very long long, you know that we talk about this a lot. And I know Cam and I both, we really know when our cortisol is up. It's a physical reaction, right? So, you know, if you've begun this journey with us, you probably know it too. And so here's some things that you can do to reduce that cortisol, and it takes practice. It takes using a lot of tools because as you said, our bandwidth is lower or or diminished, so I don't feel guilty at all about using some of these extra therapies. No. And I've also in a really busy time of my life right now, and I was taking, like, extra stress balance pills, but these also help. And you may think that they're new, but they're actually ancient ancient forms of therapy. Absolutely. Wanna tell us more? Right. Exactly. As a matter of fact, let's see, which one is the one that's been used for, like, 1,000 of years? I know cryotherapy's been used for 1,000 of years, but one thing before we get there, I wanted to point out really quickly. You know, sauna, red light, and cryo are typically not things that people can do in their homes, which means that you might have to go somewhere else and it might actually cost you money, but so do supplements and so does going to a gym. So, you know, I want you to look at these things not as an expense, but as a way to build your health and, you know, an investment. So I guess that's the bottom line, Cam, is I think that a lot of the stuff we talk about is not free per se, but when you feel better, perform better at work, feel better doing whatever, activities of daily living that you do, I just think it's worth the investment. We should look at this like a fantastic pair of shoes. This is an investment. Now, Amelia likes shoe cleavage. So Yes. I do. And I don't wear shoes. So you'd have to give me another reason. It wouldn't be about shoes. But Well, you know, whatever you wanna invest in because, actually, I had this conversation with a friend recently where we were talking about food. This is way off topic, but some people wanna spend a whole bunch of money on a bottle of really nice wine, and some people are like, that's ridiculous. And some people wanna, you know, buy a lobster or whatever. So whatever you value, think about these things we're talking about today in terms of an investment and something that you would want to invest in, which is your body. Absolutely. And I love that you wrote health care is really sick care because I could not agree with you more. Yeah. So these therapies can keep you on the health of the health track instead of the sick track. Right. Exactly. It's a shame that most of these modalities aren't, covered by traditional insurance, but I have to tell you, Cam, we're not really talking about, acupuncture today, but acupuncture is covered by some insurances now. So I think more and more people, especially with the advent of functional medicine doctors, we're this is getting more mainstream. So I have I'm not optimistic, but I'm hopeful that one day, this will be affordable for everyone. Well and, also, if you have a health health savings account, I know my place accepts that payment. And so that's a way that you get pretax dollars to help pay for some of these. So at least you're not paying the government twice. I don't know. Yeah. That is a fantastic because we put quite a way in our health savings account as well. So that is a fantastic tip for some of these things that are, quote, billed as, you know, I don't say billed as in you have to pay for it, you know, as a as a health measure that you can use that those dollars. That's a great tip. Let's start with the red light therapy. So exactly what in the world is red light therapy? That's a really good point because I know you've enjoyed this, but it yeah. A treatment that exposes you to low levels of red or near infrared light. So, I know you've experienced this, Cam. Tell us about your experience. Yeah. So, the place I go to is called ReStore, and it's actually a chain. So they're all over the United States. They're all independently owned, but you stand naked in front of these 2 humongous panels. It's kind of like a tanning bed but you're standing. It reminds me of my, you know, 70s or 8 I guess it was 80s 80s tanning bed of high school reminds me of that. You do get warm, but it's not tanning bed, like you're not getting tan, that's not what's happening. And you stand there for 10 minutes. I actually do the big six lymph drainage most days when I'm in there, and oftentimes I'll do a double session. So a single session is 10 minutes. If I have time, usually in Sunday after church, I go for a double, and so that's 20 minutes of just standing there with no music, no social media. And, yeah. So you have to be alone with your thoughts for a minute. That's good. And I think I think that's a wonderful and healthy thing. I love that time of just getting to know yourself and to be okay with your own thoughts and kind of let letting that flow. I did find a fun fact about, red light therapy. It was originally used by NASA in experiments on plant growth in space and wound healing in astronauts. So this is not you know, it was experimental, and, you know, NASA hasn't been around since the dawn of time. So, I mean, it's not like it was, you know, that long ago, but still, I think we can accept that there's a lot of really smart people working there. And so this this sort of idea has been around for a long a long time. So what exactly does it do, or how does it work? Yeah. So it's low wavelength of red light produced. That's what from these panels, if you will. And I've also seen them in masks. Have you seen that on Instagram ads or something? Yeah. Actually have. Yeah. Are these thing are the masks can you purchase that? Do you use that your use yourself? Yes. Yeah. I haven't looked into that. I did look at trying to get panels for my house, and it's too expensive. Yeah. But I know it's really healing. Like, at the cellular level, it promotes healing, which is awesome. I mean, who you know, we want all of our tissues to be healed, our skin to be in good shape. So, I think it's really cool. Yeah. So our mitochondria, flashback to science class Yes. Yes. Absorbs this energy and, your your mitochondria is your powerhouse. It's your energy source of your cells. It's, yeah, it would you add anything to that definition? Yeah. And I wanna say, I could be wrong, I wanna say that there's a link to the way the mitochondria functions in your cell and your risk for, degenerative disease. Don't tell me what kinds because I don't remember that part. Yeah. But also your aging. So when your mitochondria gets damaged and is not repaired, your general body function is not as good. But, yes, I think these are called organelles literally because they're tiny little organs inside of your cells that actually produce energy. So that's really important. Right? You know, we all want to have more energy. Totally. I feel like a little flower in the sunshine when I'm in there, and I can totally feel my mood change. It could be like, you know, or World War 3 or something, and I go in there and I'm like, ah, when I come out. So I feel like a flower. And there's lots of things that can improve with red light therapy. You, you said your mood is better. What else have you noticed personally that has improved? Definitely my mood. My energy is better. I feel like I sleep better for sure. Other things are skin skin benefits like more, increased collagen. I don't know if I've noticed a difference of that. Wound healing, like you mentioned, is another possible, benefit, And then maybe, improved outward signs of aging, like less scars, less wrinkles, and all that stuff. I just feel great. Yeah. And I think that just speaks to the red light actually improving. Like, if you have better appearance of scars and wrinkles, that's a direct effect of the better collagen production in your skin. True. And, you know, when we have scarring, you know, that's part of your body trying to heal itself. So while not getting into the science because I actually didn't look up to that level of detail, you know, that's why NASA was using it. The the analogy is you may have heard of hyperbaric chamber, therapy. People they actually have hospitals that do this where you go into this hyperbaric chamber for wound healing. And I suspect that while not as profound or as immediate red light therapy is a very similar kind of treatment. I've tried one of those chambers. They also have one. Yeah. They have one, and I only did it once because it was included in my 1st month for free and I, like, didn't stick with it, but I was there several times. Someone had ACL surgery and she was going in there constantly to, you know, help accelerate her healing after surgery. So So, you know, red light therapy, I have not tried, Cam, but I know you have and I'm eager try it. I'm assuming there's somewhere in my local area that has red light therapy, but it's got so many awesome benefits. I can't wait to try it. And if anyone out there listening has tried red light, shoot us a message. I wanna see what your experience was. Yeah. I wanna know if you feel like a flower in there. Yeah. Absolutely. But there is the next one I have tried and absolutely love, and that's the infrared sauna. I love their infrared sauna too. That was the gift to myself in 2020. It's funny that I got it right before all the shutdown because it was really like my saving grace. When the gyms are closed and the world was shut down, I just sauna ed myself. So let's talk for a second, Cam, about what that is. Infrared sauna uses infrared lamp lamps and electromagnetic to create warmth. And what's cool is people that may not have done infrared sauna, if they remember the old timey saunas, it was super hot and they used like, steam and I forgot what other forms of heat, but this is completely different. I remember in the gym I went to when I was in my twenties, had a regular sauna, and I thought I was gonna die. Like, I felt like I couldn't breathe, but the infrared is amazing. Yeah. It almost, like, heats you up from the inside out, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm hot. Oh, I'm sweating. Where did the sweat come from? It comes from the inside out. It's very interesting. Now the air is warm when you get in there for sure. Mhmm. Yeah. But it's not the steam, I can't breathe, how's this gonna work for me feeling. So Yeah. My notes say the traditional ones are steam or flame stoked. And I wanna say that one at the old gym I went to, they had, I don't know if they were real coals, but you'd like pour ladles of water on them. Yeah. And it just felt like a 1000000000 degrees. So I'd walk in there for, like, 90 seconds, and I couldn't stand it. But infrared, I can stay in there for a for a bit of time, and it's so soothing because it's very quiet, which I absolutely love. Yeah. Absolutely. You can listen to music or a book or something like that, or you can be in quiet. So that's completely up to you. But it's a really great way to unburden your body from stress or sore muscles. And this is actually why I got it because I heard it was part of heavy metal detox, which is really funny because back in 2020, I didn't know I had a heavy metal situation, but I knew I had just gone through this hysterectomy and menopause, and I was turning over every rock. Like, how did I get here? Like, maybe this will help. One of those things. And then my mother-in-law had a sauna at her house. So I was like, maybe Fran knew about something I needed to check this out. So yeah. I'm super impressed that she had a sauna. How long did she I mean, was it new at the time? Yeah. So, they lived in California. So this was I don't know. The kids were little. So my kids are grown. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. I'm so impressed. Very progressive. She also taught me about essential oils and how to sew, so she was that kind of mother-in-law. I was great. That is so cool. I I do love that story. And most of the time of, like, alternative therapies or things that you can that are readily available. This is one of those things that almost all towns have it somewhere. We have a wellness center that actually has a float tank, They have a massage therapist. I think they have, like, a compression the compression pants or whatever. So this one is easier to find, I think. I'll have to really seek out red light, but I think it's really easy to find, which makes it you know, anytime you don't have to hunt or drive to another town or city for something, it makes it a little bit easier to tackle. Yeah. And so let's talk about how this works. So the infrared actually heats the body through the light waves, and it increases the temperature of air of the air inside of the sauna. So this penetrates your tissues, and it promotes the sweating. The sweating just pours out. Well, you know, it's interesting, Cam, because I've talked to 2 or 3 people that work at the the place where I go because the temperature inside the one I go to is usually about a 135 degrees, or at least that's what the little dial is registering. And I will sit in there for a while before I actually have visible sweat. And one other girl said, well, it takes a bit of time for your body to get used to it. She said, now, because I do it so frequently, I can almost open the door and start pouring sweat. So I don't know, you know, I don't usually do it more than once a week and there I can go weeks on in and not do it at all. So I'm wondering if I need to do it more frequently in order to get the the most benefit. I'm not sure. I know when I first started, Amelia, I could not I, like, I judged myself. I thought I was gonna stay in 20 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever it was, and I just had to get out of there. And so my tolerance for the heat has definitely increased, you know, I don't know if it helped with hot flashes I don't I don't know that but it was amazing how my tolerance changed But there was a sense of judgment at the first. It's like what in the world? You know, you'd set the timer. Mine does go hotter. I can go up to 170 degrees. Degrees. I usually usually gets in the 160s, you know, by the time I'm in there and then I'm like sometimes I just want out. I just wanna get out of there. So just depends. Yeah. I can stay in there. The the the place where I go, the maximum is 45 minutes, which I can stand that at at a 135 degrees. So I've never felt it at a 160, so I don't know. But I do I mean, it is I do feel very calm. I do sleep better when I've come when I've had a sauna session, and it really gives me time to kinda drop into myself, which I love. I mean, probably better than any other environment except for maybe a walk in the woods by myself. That might be the only other place where I'm really, like, dropped into myself, which is lovely. Delightful sounding. I walk by myself in the woods. The cool thing about, sauna, which I love, especially in midlife, it actually raises your heart rate, and it's similar to cardiovascular exercise without doing cardiovascular exercise. So there are benefits like that, which I think are walking because I feel like that amount of stress on my body and cortisol was not servicing me well, and I didn't like, if we would run on Saturday, by Tuesday, I was feeling very tired and cranky. And now that I've reduced that to walking, I still think there's benefit there. So, you know, I don't huff and puff, as it were, like we used to do during step aerobics or during running or high intensity like I used to, So, this is a great option. I mean, I don't want to leave people with the impression that the only thing you have to do for heart health is sit in a sauna, but it certainly is is an adjunct to your health routine. And I'm just gonna pimp, strength training because heart failure and vascular health can also improve by lifting weights. It's a myth that cardio is cardio exercise is the only way to do this. So you can sit in the sauna and lift weights and still have cardiovascular health. I just wanna say that. Yeah. I think that's super valid. And, you know, I don't know. Sometimes I get a little breathless when I'm actually lifting weights. So I don't know, Mary. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I No. That's right. Your heart is a muscle. It makes sense. Yeah. I break a sweat for sure. All right, so what else can we say? There's other benefits. It actually helps reduce oxidative stress and inflammation and improves blood, vessel function. So when we get older, things stop being as pliable, whether it's your mental acuity or your skin texture. Well, your blood vessels can get that way too where they're not you know, blood vessels they're vessels. They're stretchy. They should be stretched and and change pressure. But as they get brittle, that's when you become more at risk for cardiovascular disease which includes stroke. So sauna is a great way to keep that pliability, flexibility, in your blood vessels and reduce inflammation. So that's a huge plug. Yeah. And then other benefits are your energy. I do feel energized after the sauna in the cooling down process, I would say. Maybe not, like, when you're in there and the mix of it, but afterwards, definitely. We've already talked about increasing your circulation and heart health. And then heavy metal detox, that's one of the benefits. You just sweat it out. Yeah. That's really awesome. And and just, you know, just I don't know that there'll be anybody this will apply to, but just most places where you go to sauna, you might have to sign a medical release. So there's a couple of populations that we, since we're not medical doctors, we would recommend that you check. People with known or existing heart issues such as unstable angina or people who have had a recent heart attack. I doubt that's much of our listenership, but just in case, you know, especially if you're a midlife mommas and maybe you're married to a midlife man that does have these issues, maybe a couple sauna might not be in your in your immediate future. So check with your doctor if you do have some existing heart conditions. Yeah. And then also just the fact that we are in menopause, our heart health even becomes more important during the stage. Isn't it the number one killer of us? Isn't that true? Yeah. Yeah. It it really is. And it's so shocking to me, Cam, because most of the people I know that have had heart attacks or heart surgeries are menopause, yes, it is. Heart health is a very, not unreported because we know that it's reported, but I think women our age do fail to appreciate that sometimes because like cam, a lot of these a lot of my friends, you know, it's their dads or their uncles who had heart disease. So we definitely need to pay attention to our heart health. Well, and just going through the process of menopause changes our cholesterol numbers. You may have noticed that personally. I know I have. Yeah. So it's all related to that estrogen leaving. So Yeah. And, honestly, Cam, my blood pressure has changed. I used to have a super low blood pressure when I was in my twenties. When I was in my thirties, it was kinda mommas. And probably about 4 years ago is when it was on the higher side of normal. And I was like, what's happening? I mean, my physician wasn't worried, but I do take curcumin. That's, and I think there's another one, co q ten maybe. But, anyway, there's some supplements. But why not just use, the sauna to actually help your heart health as well? Absolutely. Number 3 on our list is cryotherapy. And, Amelia, you had a not so great experience with cryotherapy. Yeah. I did. I'll I'll tell that story. I hope it doesn't make anybody feel like, oh my gosh. I'm not gonna try that. So first of all, I wanna talk about my what they did. So when I did it, you have these huge tanks of liquid nitrogen, and liquid nitrogen is like minus 70 degrees Celsius. I mean, it's like ridiculously cold. So when you stand in, it almost looks like a giant barrel. In fact, when I imagine it, I imagine those people who, like went over Niagara Falls in a barrel, like I'm standing in there, and they use, there's a pipe from these liquid nitrogen tanks, and once it is exposed to ambient air, it basically vaporizes. So I'm standing in there and they're piping in this super cold air, and what happened to me is I breathed in the fumes which is a lot of nitrogen, which is oh, not oxygen, and I got a horrific headache. So and it lasted, Cam. I I kind of didn't realize it when I exited the chamber, but then about 30 minutes later, it got bad and after an hour, I mean, I thought I was having like a migraine or an aneurysm or something terrible. Well, that was the cause. And I called the lady and I said, you know, what what's going on? I'm really kinda scared. And she said, you've breathed in too many of the fumes. And she said, the answer is really simple. The next time you come because I'm relatively short. She said, a, we're gonna elevate you on a platform, and, b, you just, you know, point your nose, your your face towards the ceiling so that the air that's circulating around your body, you're not breathing in. So it was a little traumatic. I'm not gonna lie. It was it was a the the headache was profound. I remember you talking about the headache. So cryotherapy is, your whole body gets cold, and those sessions last about 3 minutes. Is that how long yours was? Yep. It was 3 minutes. Yeah. So your whole body is exposed to this freezing temperature and, it activates your fight flight system because you're like, what the heck? Why is my body freezing? And it that constricts your blood vessels, and that makes your blood move away from your extremities. So like your hands, your feet, your nose, your ears, all that stuff. And, then it causes all of that blood to rush to your core and it protects your organs. And so your blood is, like, coming to your middle. Right. Right. Yeah. So during this process, it increases your oxygen levels if you don't breathe the stuff in. If you don't right. Exactly. So there is some science to this matters, and there's a reason why I had a bad experience. Yeah. And it really helps with sweat, swelling and inflammation for sure, and you can actually do it twice a day. I've never done it twice a day. Yeah. My experience is quite different, you enter this chamber kind of like a phone booth. Okay. Yeah. So your whole body's in your hair, your face, your eyes, everything, but you wear, socks and, slippers, you wear mittens and gloves, you have a robe on, you can wear a long robe, a short robe, whatever kind of robe you want. I usually wear a sports bra and underwear underneath that, so it's not like red light when you're in the in the buff. Now I guess you could go in there in the buff, but I I haven't tried that. And then I have on earmuffs and a mask. So you can you can go in there without a mask and I used to do that, but I had like I don't I wouldn't say it was a panic attack, but I do have asthma and I felt like I wasn't breathing. And so I was just like, no. If I have a mask on, at least I'm breathing. So that's how it works in my place. There's also three levels of fan so one fan would be like less cold and then there's 2 fans, 3 fans, and then you increase your time. So right now I'm doing the max time and the max fans, but that's not where I started. So that's how that works and it's quite interesting. So I wear like one of those robes that attach under your armpits, you know, like one of those Mhmm. Yeah. Like a towel, almost like a towel. Yeah. Absolutely. And so in order they take my temperature before I go in on my cam, and it's usually, like, 89 because I've come out a red light, so I'm warm. And then you go into cryotherapy, you do the 3 minutes, and then they take your temperature at the end. And most commonly, my calf temperature, the temperature of my calf is 52 degrees. So it drops quite a bit. But in the in the process of rewarming yourself, like, when you naturally rewarm, that's when, like, the joy hits. And I notice that I'm more hungry. Like, I definitely feel like it does something to my metabolism, and I just feel really happy. So that's my experience with it. That's really cool. And, you know, I was I was thinking when you were talking about the mittens and the, booties because my the place where I went does include that too. They give you the robe, but the way they told me to do it was when you get in the chamber, it's your head's out, and then you actually take the robe off so that all you have on left are the mittens and the booty, so your skin is exposed. Yeah. So maybe I should have left the the robe on. I don't know. I'm not opposed to doing it again, Cam. I have done it twice since, but the first experience was rather traumatic. And I also wanna point out that this idea of of cold therapy, it also has been around forever. In fact, it may be on TikTok or wherever. My daughter is part of a group that's doing a cold plunge challenge, and every week, she lives in Vermont. Like, they go jumping Lake Champlain in Vermont in, you know, January, February. I don't know how long they stay. But the idea of submersing your body in cold, whether it's cryotherapy that you're getting from this liquid nitrogen in a cold, lake or in a cold shower really has a lot of health benefits that are there's mounds of data to back this up, especially with regard to recovery and inflammation reduction. Yeah. As far as the robe goes, I do open I I keep it attached to my Okay. You know, but I do open it to expose my, like, lower back, my bottom, and my belly. Okay. And if I keep my arms away from my body, I definitely get colder, if you will. Yes. And when I bring my elbows down towards my body, it's amazing how much heat you can feel from your own body in that cold chamber. So I try to keep my arms away from my body just to, you know, get the whole benefits of it. Yeah. Cold plunge is a thing. My daughter does it, she does live in Florida, but the ocean's cold. Yeah. So, when I was there in January, we got we watched sunrise and then we got in the ocean. I stripped down the pair of shorts and a sports bra and ran into the ocean in January. And you may have seen this in, like, on the news or if you watch the Olympics or some documentary profiling athletes. And even back in the seventies, you'd see athletes sit in an ice bath. Mhmm. So again, this has just been used for a really long time, and now we know that metabolically, in addition to just sports recovery, there are benefits. So I think the stuff that used to be just crazy high performance athletes, those things they use are now becoming mainstream and we know there's benefits. Yeah. The first time I ever saw an ice bath was when I was a CrossFit coach, and I went to judge the game. I was a judge at one of the, tournaments, and they had ice baths. Literally it looked like a big trough with ice water in it. Yeah. And I've also seen on TikTok or Instagram lately, the barrels so you can buy a barrel for your house. I mean, I think that would be fun. I could see Dan and I doing that at some point and, having an ice barrel in our backyard. But I've seen where they have to literally crack the ice open to get in, like, at this time of year. Yeah. And cold water immersion is also one of those things that's been around for longer than the seventies. My research showed that it dates writings of Hippocrates, who is typically yeah. He's described in the writings of Hippocrates who is typically Yeah. He's considered the father of medicine. So this one has really been around for a really long, long time. So I think we can trust this one. Yeah. So I would also like to say from a parasympathetic from our nervous system, you definitely go into fight flight for a minute when you say. But then all of a sudden it then all of a sudden it like kicks off and then you're calm it's very interesting at our where I go you pick a song and so it's like literally one song you can stand there for one song. Some lately, I've been dancing. I don't know what that's about, but it's really fun because I don't let, like, let loose like that, but I let loose in the cryotherapy chamber. I don't know. Yeah. It's very interesting. It is interesting. I would love to know from our listeners if you tried it Mhmm. What your experience is. And if you, you know, if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm gonna try it, let us know because it's really different. I would say it, for me, especially because I had a bad experience, it takes a little more courage because it's so than than red light or a sauna because this, the feeling is more intense to me. Like, don't don't you think that Oh, yeah. That cryo is a more intense, like, physical sensation. Yeah. And I hate the cold. I hate the cold, but what the heck? I mean, it's really it's amazing to practice, you know, like, if you have tolerance, turn your water cold on the last few whatever of your seconds minutes if you can handle it of your shower And then this was also a trend on TikTok is you get a, a bowl of ice water and put your face in it. So I know that your face and your, like, chest are more sensitive to the cold and so that's a way to, like, get the benefits without putting your whole body in a bucket of ice. You cam just put your face in your chest. So give it a try because that would be a great way to give it a give it a test. Yeah, absolutely. And I know that years ago when we talked, I had heard about, finishing with a cold rinse. Right. And part of that is just restricting, you know, your capillary. So when the cold water hits your skin, your capillaries contract. It very much just like what you were talking about, Cam, where the blood rushes out of the extremities and back to the center of your body. So, you know, circulation in older people, I don't consider us older people, but I'm talking about, you know, 80 plus, is a very big deal in your extremities. My father-in-law, before he passed, had terrible circulation in his extremities. His feet were always cold, and when you do things like this that that seem extreme but force your blood flow and helps the elasticity of your blood vessels, it really does help because, God forbid, if your circulation is bad, you don't want the doctor to say, well, that tissue's dead. We gotta whack that off. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That would be a bad day. So just keeping up that circulation is really important. Yeah. And if you were gonna stack these together, I would do the warm things first. So like sauna and or red light. So you're opening everything because you're warm, you're opening, and then get in the cold, and then you close it all down. And it's the contrast between those 2. It's Absolutely. And there's people that actually cycle this. Like, they'll do, like and I think more than once, like, sauna or red light cryo and then do the cycle again. I mean, there's some crazy people out there that that, you know, really thrive on this kind of activity. I've heard about that. Absolutely. And the rule at our my place for cryo, as long as you're back to body temperature, you can get back in. So Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. They want you to be safe for sure. But, you know, Cam, I used to if you'd asked me 2 years ago about this, I would have laughed at you probably. Maybe maybe not 2, maybe more like 3a half. Uh-huh. But now I'm eager to try new things. I'm like, oh, what is that about? I Uh-huh. I heard about some different supplements on Instagram and, you know, not that I'm gonna take anything additional at the moment, but I think it's made me so much more open to be in an experiment of 1. And I get to decide whether you know, the supplements or the therapies are right for me, but just knowing that there's so much more out there just is so empowering. I totally agree. We joined the Restore. I think it was last April, so it's we're coming up on a year, and we joined for 1 month. We're like, we'll just give it a shot. Do I like this? Do I feel any different? And I do track my sleep on my Oura ring and I did notice a difference in my sleep and my heart rate variability improved, which is the space between your heartbeat, which is part of your nervous system. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna keep going. I'm enjoying this. This is this is good for me. Dan since then is not going, but that's alright. That's just not for him, but it's for me. I feel like it supports my system. Right. And I love that you said that that there's a difference even within your household because what's right for us may not be right for you or vice versa, or you may find that you love sauna and hate cryo or vice versa. So just, you know, we're just trying to give you information that's gonna help you be the best person you can be and really get the most out of your life. Thanks for listening today. You can find us on Instagram@midlife.mommas. For all of our other contact info, check out the show description below, and we will talk to you next week.